117 replies to this topic

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Re-watched the film tonight with two buddies. We all agreed it improved on a second viewing, and for the most part I enjoyed the film.

It's still far from perfect, though. The editing looks ten times better on a smaller screen than in a cinema, but it's still deeply flawed and at times rather confusing. There are some ridicilous plot holes too that, or rather, plot flaws: for instance, why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer? That way, he might actually have learnt something about them, which would have been good for both him and the viewer.

Overally, I wish the "Bond goes rogue" angle would have been more in focus, as it is now it feels like an afterthought of some kind.

Also, as I've said before, there's way too much Judi Dench in this one. It's ridicilous how M can seemingly travel around the world to follow one of her agents like she does here (and in CR, for that matter). I really hope she only has a scene or two in Bond 23, it feels too much like "Team Bond" when she is involved to the degree she is here.

Craig's performance is even better than I remembered it, though the script really doesn't give him that much to work with.

I like the character of Camille and Olga did a fine job with the role, but I really don't see why she is so interesting that she needs to return in another film. Time will show, I guess.

Overally, I give the film a 7/10 rating. Good, but could have been better with a director with better eye for shooting exciting action (seriously, there is almost no suspense in any of the thrill-scenes in QoS) and a more focused script.

[Mr. Blofeld]

There are some ridiculous plot holes too that, or rather, plot flaws: for instance, why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer?

Connery-esque, I take it...

[JimmyBond]

Overally, I wish the "Bond goes rogue" angle would have been more in focus, as it is now it feels like an afterthought of some kind.

Well, it feels like an afterthought because he doesnt really go rogue. At first we're lead to believe he does, but his "I never left" line at the end shows he was always doing his duty for Queen and Country.

[Judo chop]

It's still far from perfect, though. The editing looks ten times better on a smaller screen than in a cinema

It does!

why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer? That way, he might actually have learnt something about them, which would have been good for both him and the viewer.

Well, the deal was pretty much done. All of Quantum had agreed to the plan. Bond had what he needed in info (guilt, essentially), but more than anything, he needed to know "who". So he asked them to stand for pictures.

"Horribly efficient."

[00Twelve]

Why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer? That way, he might actually have learnt something about them, which would have been good for both him and the viewer.

Well, the deal was pretty much done. All of Quantum had agreed to the plan. Bond had what he needed in info (guilt, essentially), but more than anything, he needed to know "who". So he asked them to stand for pictures.

"Horribly efficient."

Aye. Fleming described how Bond could get to the point with an adversarial organization that he liked to throw his weight around. Bond heard plenty of what he needed to learn and deliberately sent Quantum fleeing for the exact purpose of snapping the now conspicuous members. Thus Bond's "thank you" and White's ingenius idea to just sit right where he was.

[MattofSteel]

It's still far from perfect, though. The editing looks ten times better on a smaller screen than in a cinema

It does!

why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer? That way, he might actually have learnt something about them, which would have been good for both him and the viewer.

Well, the deal was pretty much done. All of Quantum had agreed to the plan. Bond had what he needed in info (guilt, essentially), but more than anything, he needed to know "who". So he asked them to stand for pictures.

"Horribly efficient."

I thought it was obvious, Bond had always intended to do that to get his pictures - but he saw the guy coming up the stage stairs behind him and was forced to act quickly. There's an insert shot of him turning to check.

[Harmsway]

I thought it was obvious, Bond had always intended to do that to get his pictures - but he saw the guy coming up the stage stairs behind him and was forced to act quickly. There's an insert shot of him turning to check.

As far as I recall, the guy doesn't start coming up the stairs until after Bond interrupts the meeting.

[Joe Bond]

Agreed with the rest of the post about the pictures but I can never understand why a lot of people complain about M having a bigger role than normal. First is a "Team Bond" actually a bad thing because for me it is not since its different from what we got in the past but I am not certain if thats the case here because she is in the film a lot because of the relationship between Bond and M is still developing through QoS and I don't have a problem with M following Bond since Bond just became a 00 and she needs to keep a close eye on him for that reason so he does not get out of control and there are trust issues between Bond and M that are not resolved in CR and QoS shows how M finally trusts Bond's motives and intstincts even though other people may not agree with them so I think M will no longer be a big role in the Bond films since her releationship with Bond has been established and now they trust each other.

[double o ego]

M's scenes have been rather intrusive, particularly when she suspends Bond at the hotel only to moments later have complete and utter faith in him. For the next movie, he screen time needs to be downsized to what it was in the Brosnan era. Minimal. Look at Bernerd Lee's screen times, he said his piece and then the film allowed Bod to do what ever, get results and report back. That's the way it needs to be.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

There are some ridiculous plot holes too that, or rather, plot flaws: for instance, why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer?

Connery-esque, I take it...

Well, maybe, Craig's Bond has that kind of arrogance.

Well, it feels like an afterthought because he doesnt really go rogue. At first we're lead to believe he does, but his "I never left" line at the end shows he was always doing his duty for Queen and Country.

Damn, I didn't think of it that way. Good point.

Aye. Fleming described how Bond could get to the point with an adversarial organization that he liked to throw his weight around. Bond heard plenty of what he needed to learn and deliberately sent Quantum fleeing for the exact purpose of snapping the now conspicuous members. Thus Bond's "thank you" and White's ingenius idea to just sit right where he was.

Hm, this does sound logical. However, I still stand by my claim that the film would have benefitted from giving us a bit more information about Quantum. I like the idea of the the hunt for them having just begun, but the film would have felt a bit more satisfying if we knew just a tiny bit more about who Quantum are, what they do, and so on. It would have made me a lot more excited about seeing them in another sequel.

M's scenes have been rather intrusive, particularly when she suspends Bond at the hotel only to moments later have complete and utter faith in him. For the next movie, he screen time needs to be downsized to what it was in the Brosnan era. Minimal. Look at Bernerd Lee's screen times, he said his piece and then the film allowed Bod to do what ever, get results and report back. That's the way it needs to be.

Agreed completely.
I had the same problem with Indy 4, it felt like "Team Indy".

so I think M will no longer be a big role in the Bond films since her releationship with Bond has been established and now they trust each other.

Hope you're right. Also, if Dench is keen on quitting the series, they might demand less of her in terms of screentime.

[MattofSteel]

I thought it was obvious, Bond had always intended to do that to get his pictures - but he saw the guy coming up the stage stairs behind him and was forced to act quickly. There's an insert shot of him turning to check.

As far as I recall, the guy doesn't start coming up the stairs until after Bond interrupts the meeting.

Pretty sure it's before.

[blueman]

Two guys: the first is a stagehand, just serves to remind Bond he's not in the best of places for anything long-term, hence Bond deciding to interrupt the Quantum peeps and snap some mug shots; the second is a bad guy, whom Bond jumps.

[MajorB]

I don't mind M being in the film as much as she was, and in fact I thought her relationship with Bond was at least as interesting as any other relationship in the film. But I do think some of her scenes got repetitive:

Tanner: "Bond killed Slate."
M (on phone): "Bond! You killed Slate!"
Bond: "Yes ma'am, sorry ma'am."
Tanner: "Bond killed a Special Branch man."
M (on phone): "Bond! You killed a Special Branch man!"
Bond: "Yes ma'am, sorry ma'am."
Tanner: "Bond killed Mathis!"
etc.

I'm not sure what could've been done about this without restructuring the whole middle of the film, but it would've been nice if this pattern could've been broken up. Otherwise I liked the Bond/M interaction a lot, and I continue to really like Dench as M.

[Judo chop]

She's basically the same M we've had since Goldeneye. Only now they've come to openly admit she's a mother figure.

BTW, I really dislike how they (writing and acting) handled the part where the call to Langley is routed straight to Greg Beam:

M: (to herself, I guess) "It's of critical importance."

Tanner: "B...b...but she just said it was of little importance..."

M: "TANNER!!!! THEY JUST TRANSFERRED ME TO THE HEAD-DIDDLY-HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT! LET ME NOW EXPLAIN TO YOU AND THE AUDIENCE WHY I SAID WHAT I SAID AND THUS JUST HOW IMPORTANT THIS GREENE GUY IS TO THE PLOT!!!!"

That's an 0-and-3 count in my book.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Re-watched the film AGAIN yesterday with a different set of buddies, who also agreed the film was even better second time around (good sign).

Me? I think the film got even better the third time, actually. My IMDb rating of it (I have a habit of rating most of the films I see on that site) is now 8/10. Not a perfect film, but some of the "major" flaws I thought it had when I watched it in theaters doesn't even exist.

I've gone from thinking of this movie as "very dissapointing" to "hey, quite good actually" to "am I watching the same movie? This is excellent!".

[Col. Sun]

Re-watched the film AGAIN yesterday with a different set of buddies, who also agreed the film was even better second time around (good sign).

Me? I think the film got even better the third time, actually. My IMDb rating of it (I have a habit of rating most of the films I see on that site) is now 8/10. Not a perfect film, but some of the "major" flaws I thought it had when I watched it in theaters doesn't even exist.

I've gone from thinking of this movie as "very dissapointing" to "hey, quite good actually" to "am I watching the same movie? This is excellent!".

Last night I watched the double bill, CR and QoS on Blueray, and I loved both films. Seeing QoS directly after CR really makes a difference to the experience and I think it is a brilliant follow-up. Craig is just superb and it is also nonsense to say he doesn't have humour; he shows great range and his performance builds beautifully on his work in CR. Also, I had NO problem following the action sequences.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I might try to watch them as a double-bill before too long, sounds like a good idea.

And I agree about Craig's humour. I found him amusing in many scenes, and he has more charm in this film than people give him credit for.

[MattofSteel]

Two guys: the first is a stagehand, just serves to remind Bond he's not in the best of places for anything long-term, hence Bond deciding to interrupt the Quantum peeps and snap some mug shots; the second is a bad guy, whom Bond jumps.

How can you possibly tell the difference? Those two shots are clearly meant to show the same guy.

[byline]

There are some ridicilous plot holes too that, or rather, plot flaws: for instance, why did Bond interrupt the Quantum members he listened to at the opera, instead of actually listening to them for a bit longer? That way, he might actually have learnt something about them, which would have been good for both him and the viewer.

I thought that moment was brilliant. Bond knew he'd heard about all he was going to get (because it was clear they'd come to an agreement and were about to wrap up their "meeting"), then flushed them out of their seats with one of the most amusing lines in the film and got their photos, with which he knew he could ID them and learn still more.

Edited by byline, 05 April 2009 - 03:55 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

I agree on the whole M thing, too. Why bother having an intire array of tracking devices if she's going to hop on a plane and follow her agents. The amount of screentime she had was beyond rediculous.

[MattofSteel]

Just rewatched the film again tonight from the DC3 on. I can't get over the subtle things I keep noticing, and the way the entire thing is crafted. Feels so wonderfully nostalgic, and at the same time modern. And it's unmistakably Bond.

I get why QoS rubbed some people the wrong way, I really do. But I will never understand the hyperbole behind calling it the worst Bond ever, or a rubbish film in general. There's too much good stuff here for it to land anywhere near those opinions for me.

[byline]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

Well, then he wouldn't have got pictures of most of them for M now, would he? I thought it served everyone's purposes quite well.

I agree on the whole M thing, too. Why bother having an intire array of tracking devices if she's going to hop on a plane and follow her agents. The amount of screentime she had was beyond rediculous.

Frankly, the scenes between M and Bond are among my favorites. Craig and Dench have a remarkable chemistry, and their scenes sizzle. I enjoy the fact that they have so many scenes together, and it makes some sense to me, given his relatively new status as a Double-O.

[DamnCoffee]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

Well, then he wouldn't have got pictures of most of them for M now, would he? I thought it served everyone's purposes quite well.

We all know he could've found another way around that, and avoided alarming them. He could've waited for them to all get up after the meeting finished, and then took photographs. But noooo, he had to make a smart- quip then run through a restraunt with a loaded gun!

Don't get me wong, it's a damn entertaining film, I just feel most of the action doesn't have a purpose.

[byline]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

Well, then he wouldn't have got pictures of most of them for M now, would he? I thought it served everyone's purposes quite well.

We all know he could've found another way around that, and avoided alarming them. He could've waited for them to all get up after the meeting finished, and then took photographs. But noooo, he had to make a smart- quip then run through a restraunt with a loaded gun!

But it is a Bond film, after all. They all have these moments where Bond intimidates his adversaries and reacts in such a way to provoke some sort of an attack. I can think of one in every single film I've seen. They're not all chase scenes through restaurants, of course, but Bond and whoever's chasing him are causing general mayhem amongst innocent bystanders . . . and for whatever reason, that's part of the appeal of the series. If it weren't there, fans would be complaining long and loud about that part of the iconography falling by the wayside, too.

Edited by byline, 06 April 2009 - 03:55 PM.

[Judo chop]

But it is a Bond film, after all. They all have these moments where Bond intimidates his adversaries and reacts in such a way to provoke some sort of an attack. I can think of one in every single film I've seen. They're not all chase scenes through restaurants, of course, but Bond and whoever's chasing him are causing general mayhem amongst innocent bystanders . . . and for whatever reason, that's part of the appeal of the series. If it weren't there, fans would be complaining long and loud about that part of the iconography falling by the wayside, too.

Quite right, byline. If you complain about Bond’s interruption of the Tosca meeting, you really have no choice but to also complain each time Bond walks right up to a villain and introduces himself as “Bond, James Bond”.

Tosca is a perfect example of Bond as the consciously reckless agent, and thus a HUGE part of what makes Bond so awesome.

I cannot emphasize the hugeness enough.

[HH007]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

Well, then he wouldn't have got pictures of most of them for M now, would he? I thought it served everyone's purposes quite well.

We all know he could've found another way around that, and avoided alarming them. He could've waited for them to all get up after the meeting finished, and then took photographs. But noooo, he had to make a smart- quip then run through a restraunt with a loaded gun!

Don't get me wong, it's a damn entertaining film, I just feel most of the action doesn't have a purpose.

No, MHark, he would not have been able to get pictures of them without interrupting. There's nothing to say they would've left the Opera right after the meeting. Bond interrupted deliberately to make them panic to the point where they would get up and retreat, thus exposing themselves. Had Bond not interrupted the meeting, then the Quantum members would have (most likely) left the theater with the rest of audience, and Bond would've had squat.

[tdalton]

It was a great moment, so much for Bond using his wits though. He could've easily taking the earphone out, exited and updated M. Instead of distrupting the damn conversation, resulting in a pointless restraunt shootout. It would've been a lot better if Bond got caught by the guard coming up the staircase, who then raised the alarm. Then the action would've atleast had a purpose.

Well, then he wouldn't have got pictures of most of them for M now, would he? I thought it served everyone's purposes quite well.

We all know he could've found another way around that, and avoided alarming them. He could've waited for them to all get up after the meeting finished, and then took photographs. But noooo, he had to make a smart- quip then run through a restraunt with a loaded gun!

Don't get me wong, it's a damn entertaining film, I just feel most of the action doesn't have a purpose.

No, MHark, he would not have been able to get pictures of them without interrupting. There's nothing to say they would've left the Opera right after the meeting. Bond interrupted deliberately to make them panic to the point where they would get up and retreat, thus exposing themselves. Had Bond not interrupted the meeting, then the Quantum members would have (most likely) left the theater with the rest of audience, and Bond would've had squat.

Completely agreed. That was the whole purpose of interrupting their meeting. I think that Mr. White demonstrated what the real plant was for that meeting, which was to stay put until the end of the opera.

I thought that the entire sequence at the opera was not only one of the many highlights of the film, but it's also a highlight of the entire franchise. Fantastic stuff all around.

[The Dove]

Totally agree with you tdalton!!

[DamnCoffee]

Fine, you got me there. "It takes somethin to admit you were wrong!"

Please believe me when I say I really do love Quantum Of Solace, It's a very entertaining film. It's just that the movie is full of flaws, pointless action and gaping plotholes. I'm just having some reservations about it. Put it this way, Quantum Of Solace is number 7 in my top Bond Films, there's no way that it will go up, but there is a very high possibility that it will go down.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

Fine, you got me there. "It takes somethin to admit you were wrong!"

Please believe me when I say I really do love Quantum Of Solace, It's a very entertaining film. It's just that the movie is full of flaws, pointless action and gaping plotholes. I'm just having some reservations about it. Put it this way, Quantum Of Solace is number 7 in my top Bond Films, there's no way that it will go up, but there is a very high possibility that it will go down.

I agree. I don't think that any of the action scenes are interesting or amazing, like they were in Casino Royale. It's sad because, to me, I was so excited to see Quantum after the perfect Casino Royale. But halfway through the film, I thought, "Maybe I was supposed to lower my expectations."