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Did White know?


10 replies to this topic

#1 Pierce - Daniel

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:12 AM

At the end of CR and the start of QOS. Did White know that mi6 were on to him? Did he know he was going to be intercepted? Look at all the points:
-He had the alfas ready to go within minutes of Bond trapping him in the boot.
-Mitchell was already at the scene in Siena.

My take is that after Bond got Vesper's message he went straight to London, or stayed in Italy and M came over. She clearly bought Mitchell, her bodyguard, with her. They tracked White's phone just like how Bond did Dimitrios in CR, this would give Mitchell enough time to tell White he was the next to get takern. So White arranged for some men to be on hand in cars to intercept him while he was being carried to a safe-house. The only thing none of the men bargained on was Bond's rough sentimentality, White didn't know Bond would shoot him in the knee and throw him into a boot.
Otherwise did White always know.

#2 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:39 AM

No, he didn't know.

It stands to reason that White is a pretty senior figure within Quantum. He's certainly a powerbroker of some kind, but he also reports to higher-ups. Yet although he got himself caught, he was allowed to live and even rejoined his old position when watching Tosca; although listening in, he gives the otehr Quantum members no indication that he is there. With that in mind, it's likely White constantly has some muscle with him most of the time; if not in his line of sight, then certainly in close proximity.

If White knew MI6 were on to him, he would have been out of there before anyone even noticed. He quite clearly pointed out during the interrogation scene that Quantum have always been cautious of the likes of MI6, and it's not as if he let himself be caught simply to have Mitchell blow his own cover and kill the operatives. Doing so would simply waste a well-placed agent. It's obvious that Mitchell had no idea MI6 were after Quantum until they brought White in; he was M's personal bodyguard, but that does not mean she confided state secrets in him.

A more likely scenario would have M in Siena interrogating Rene Mathis - Talamone is not far from Siena - when Bond arrived, probably a week or so after the conversation on the boat at the end of CASINO ROAYLE. When Bond took White, White's people who were watching from within the house reacted to the situation and instantly took after Bond in the Alfa Romeos. Mitchell's presence is explained by his role as bodyguard: wherever M goes, Mitchell goes. And before you say anything like wondering where he was during the scenes with M in her home, in the Bahamas and at her office, it's pretty obvious that he isn't with her day and night, and that when she was briefing Bond at The Ocean Club, she was in the presence of a Double-Oh.

Honestly, Pierce - Daniel ... do you just have trouble following the average film, or do you need the film to stop every fifteen minutes and make clear to you what has gone before? QUANTUM OF SOLACE subverts that by assuming you're smart enough to keep up with it, which really isn't all that difficult.

#3 Double-0-7

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:55 PM

That is one way to kill a thread, Captain.

Personally I didn't put too much thought into it, but doubt that White knew MI6 was onto him. Having seen how brutal Craig-Bond can be no one in their right mind would drive around unprotected if they knew 007 was actively hunting him. A bullet in the knee would be the least you would expect if located.

#4 Bucky

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 01:14 AM

do we think mitchell alerted quantum to the plot to kidnap white which was the reason for the alfas chasing bond?

#5 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:14 AM

It doesn't matter where they come from, only that they are present. I'd say it's more likely the Alfas were White's bodyguards of a sort than Mitchell risking having his cover blown, but it's still a possibility.

#6 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:21 AM

I'd like to think they were on coffee break and spilled their drinks when they saw Bond speeding by their checkpoint with White's muffled screaming coming from the trunk... :(

#7 blueman

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:46 AM

I'd like to think they were on coffee break and spilled their drinks when they saw Bond speeding by their checkpoint with White's muffled screaming coming from the trunk... B)

I can almost picture such a scene in a Fleming story... minus the comedic bent of course. :tdown:

#8 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:32 AM

I'd like to think they were on coffee break and spilled their drinks when they saw Bond speeding by their checkpoint with White's muffled screaming coming from the trunk... :tdown:

I can almost picture such a scene in a Fleming story... minus the comedic bent of course. :tdown:

You can, can't you? The pre-titles seem to reek of Fleming for me... B)

#9 juepucta

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 10:09 PM

Let me add one more thing to your thorough explanation.

Bond seems to be acting on his own, rogue. Maybe if he had been ordered by M, her Quantum employed bodyguard/mole could have alerted White. But one of the first things M tells Bond when he arrives (with White) at the Sienna safe house is something to the effect of: "this is not what i told you to do (and the CIA are gonna be pissed off)".

-G.

No, he didn't know.

It stands to reason that White is a pretty senior figure within Quantum. He's certainly a powerbroker of some kind, but he also reports to higher-ups. Yet although he got himself caught, he was allowed to live and even rejoined his old position when watching Tosca; although listening in, he gives the otehr Quantum members no indication that he is there. With that in mind, it's likely White constantly has some muscle with him most of the time; if not in his line of sight, then certainly in close proximity.

If White knew MI6 were on to him, he would have been out of there before anyone even noticed. He quite clearly pointed out during the interrogation scene that Quantum have always been cautious of the likes of MI6, and it's not as if he let himself be caught simply to have Mitchell blow his own cover and kill the operatives. Doing so would simply waste a well-placed agent. It's obvious that Mitchell had no idea MI6 were after Quantum until they brought White in; he was M's personal bodyguard, but that does not mean she confided state secrets in him.

A more likely scenario would have M in Siena interrogating Rene Mathis - Talamone is not far from Siena - when Bond arrived, probably a week or so after the conversation on the boat at the end of CASINO ROAYLE. When Bond took White, White's people who were watching from within the house reacted to the situation and instantly took after Bond in the Alfa Romeos. Mitchell's presence is explained by his role as bodyguard: wherever M goes, Mitchell goes. And before you say anything like wondering where he was during the scenes with M in her home, in the Bahamas and at her office, it's pretty obvious that he isn't with her day and night, and that when she was briefing Bond at The Ocean Club, she was in the presence of a Double-Oh.

Honestly, Pierce - Daniel ... do you just have trouble following the average film, or do you need the film to stop every fifteen minutes and make clear to you what has gone before? QUANTUM OF SOLACE subverts that by assuming you're smart enough to keep up with it, which really isn't all that difficult.



#10 DaveBond21

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:21 AM

White didn't know. Mitchell probably didn't know that Bond had White's phone number. In addition, just like with the rest of CR and QOS, Bond probably only provided token information to M about what he was doing, so even M couldn't quite be sure just who Bond would have with him when they met in Siena. It's also pretty clear that White got a surprise when he received the call from Bond, and when he got a bullet in the leg!

Neither White nor Mitchell would have guessed that Vesper would leave her phone for Bond to find.

#11 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 06:38 AM

White didn't know. Mitchell probably didn't know that Bond had White's phone number. In addition, just like with the rest of CR and QOS, Bond probably only provided token information to M about what he was doing, so even M couldn't quite be sure just who Bond would have with him when they met in Siena. It's also pretty clear that White got a surprise when he received the call from Bond, and when he got a bullet in the leg!

Neither White nor Mitchell would have guessed that Vesper would leave her phone for Bond to find.

Oh, I think it would be logical for Bond to inform M who he was going after. I doubt she was left completely in the dark. However, M would have no reason to share that same information with Mitchell. He's only her bodyguard after all and White would have been neutralized when she met him anyway as he would have been in custody at the time. Section 26, paragraph 5, you know. That information of Bond bringing in White was on a need to know basis only, and Mitchell wouldn't have needed to know all the details. All she probably told him, if anything, was that a suspected Quantum member was being brought in for interrogation. Could have a low-level member or even a non-member for all Mitchell would have known.

Oh, and White had no idea he was about to be apprehended by Bond. The most likely reason for the car chase was that White's men either arrived in time to see Bond putting White in the trunk of the car or see Bond's car leaving the estate. Whether they initially suspected Bond's car of being involved in anything bad happening to White or not is debatable, but there is the matter of White's cell phone lying on the ground and a trail of blood leading to the stairs. It wouldn't have taken a genius to figure out that something bad just happened to their boss and that he's missing and that Bond's car likely had something to do with it.