24 replies to this topic

[Daddy Bond]

First, let me say that this is NOT a thread intended to discuss whether you liked or disliked CR or QOS.

The question is: If CR and QOS represent the reboot of Bond (and the introduction of Craig as Bond), what exactly has Craig's Bond learned in his experience of the events of CR and QOS that make him the Bond we all know? What has he yet to learn (if anything other than more experience)?

I'll start (add another number or expand on a number as you see fit):

#1 - Bond, although able to kill and willing to kill if necessary, will no longer kill with abandon, but has become more tempered, more thoughtful - as illustrated at the end of QOS.

What else has Bond learned? Also, please feel free to expand or add on to the point I have mentioned above, if you would like.

[DamnCoffee]

'Not to fall in love' is probably the number one lesson he has learned. That's why he now see's woman as disposable pleasures, rather than meaningfull pursuits.

[Jim]

How to dress properly. That shirt at the start of Casino Royale. I mean, really.

[Daddy Bond]

How to dress properly. That shirt at the start of Casino Royale. I mean, really.

Yeah, I agree, not too great IMO.

[DamnCoffee]

How to dress properly. That shirt at the start of Casino Royale. I mean, really.

Agreed. It was like something he stole from Alfie Moon.

[Daddy Bond]

How to dress properly. That shirt at the start of Casino Royale. I mean, really.

Agreed. It was like something he stole from Alfie Moon.

Indeed, the Alfie Moon shirt.

[plankattack]

Other than not getting emotionally involved, I'm not sure much. IMHO the notion that the reboot is the start of an evolving character arc is a presumptious one at best. Until we've seen three or four films out of DC, there's no way to tell if the character will have grown in any way - and seeing that QoS begins shortly after CR, any character growth surely wouldn't occur that quickly.

Yes, by not killing Yusef, he's proved that he know sees "the big picture" but that to me seems like learning a professional lesson rather than Bond himself changing.

Ultimately, everytime a new actor is cast (regardless of the script) the character resets, and while the idea that Bond will grow and develop over DC's tenure is an interesting idea, I feel it remains just a concept at this point. To be honest, the only actor who's really been given the opportunity to do anything like this in the series so far, is Sir Rog, who's FYEO Bond is clear an older, and perhpaps more worldlier Bond than his own LALD, and most definitely Laz's OHMSS Bond, to which the film refers.

[Daddy Bond]

Other than not getting emotionally involved, I'm not sure much. IMHO the notion that the reboot is the start of an evolving character arc is a presumptious one at best. Until we've seen three or four films out of DC, there's no way to tell if the character will have grown in any way - and seeing that QoS begins shortly after CR, any character growth surely wouldn't occur that quickly.

Yes, by not killing Yusef, he's proved that he know sees "the big picture" but that to me seems like learning a professional lesson rather than Bond himself changing.

Ultimately, everytime a new actor is cast (regardless of the script) the character resets, and while the idea that Bond will grow and develop over DC's tenure is an interesting idea, I feel it remains just a concept at this point. To be honest, the only actor who's really been given the opportunity to do anything like this in the series so far, is Sir Rog, who's FYEO Bond is clear an older, and perhpaps more worldlier Bond than his own LALD, and most definitely Laz's OHMSS Bond, to which the film refers.

A change professionally does indeed count as a change in Bond. However, I do think the films are intending to show the development of some of aspects of Bond that we all know.

Let me add one more.

He has definitely learned not to completely trust anyone, although I believe he respects M and Leiter and does, in a sense, trust them to a degree.

[trs007]

When playing Hold 'Em, the biggest win comes not from "playing the man opposite", but by holding the NUT high hand.

[HH007]

I think he learned to be more careful about who he trusts. Also, I think he learned to take his work more seriously. In CR, he had a cocky swagger and a smirk, and was needlessly reckless, as if the whole secret agent thing was a game to him. In QoS, he seemed much more serious and business minded when it came to the job.

[Jim]

How to pull a woman even though one's testicles have been smashed into a horrible meaty goo.
How this tune seems to follow him around whenever he does something cool.
How to perform a really quick funeral.
How to wear a cardigan without looking utterly ridiculous (albeit slightly ridiculous).

Valuable life skills. Especially the last one.

[DavidSomerset]

Things which Bond learnt

• A Sony Ericsson Mobile phone works wonders.
• Always keep your sense of humor - especially when someone is busting your balls
• When to open your parachute - just 2 seconds before impact
• Saying your Last Name first, and First Name last makes the crowd go wild
• Keep a defibrillator handy as we dont know who might poison you
• Puny little Frenchmen can create problems with an axe
• Henchmen who wear a toupee can be killed by blowing their pants off in an explosion
• Never stay in an hotel powered by Hydrogen Fuel cells
• Quantum has people EveryWhere ™
• Felix is a cool brother
• M treats him as if she was his mother
• When someone hangs on a ledge with your tie, then shove them over
• Death by motor oil is a good way for terrorists to die
• Dont sleep with pissed off gals on a vendetta, even if they are hot as Camille

Edited by DavidSomerset, 17 February 2009 - 04:50 PM.

[Jim]

Until you've killed at least a couple of people, you can only see in black and white. It's just like dropping acid, only a lickle bick more anti-social.

[plankattack]

Until you've killed at least a couple of people, you can only see in black and white. It's just like dropping acid, only a lickle bick more anti-social.

Do not meet, bearded, swarthy, suspicious-looking chaps in the men's room.

[Jim]

Until you've killed at least a couple of people, you can only see in black and white. It's just like dropping acid, only a lickle bick more anti-social.

Do not meet, bearded, swarthy, suspicious-looking chaps in the men's room.

Some of us never learned that lesson.

[Daddy Bond]

Until you've killed at least a couple of people, you can only see in black and white. It's just like dropping acid, only a lickle bick more anti-social.

Reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon where Calvin asks his dad why old photos are black and white. It goes something like this:

Calvin: Dad, why are old photos in black and white?
Dad: Because the world was black and white at that time. The world started having color sometime around the 1920's or 1930's, I think.
Calvin: Then why aren't old paintings in black and white?
Dad: Because, they turned color along with the rest of the world in the 1930's.
Calvin: Then why didn't these old black and white photos turn color as well?
Dad: Because they were photos of a black and white world.
Dad grins and walks away. Calvin has a confused look.

NOTE: This is truly bad parenting, but also VERY funny.

[MajorB]

How to tail people. In CR, every time he followed someone (Dimitrios, Carlos, Vesper), he was spotted. In QoS, he was able to follow Camille on a motorcycle and not be noticed--even when he rode the bike into a boat. That's a stealth skill!

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

As Judi Dench told him, Bond knows that he can't trust anyone. He trusted Vesper and Mathis, and look at what had happened. He lost Vesper, and Mathis turned out to be a Quantum member.
He learns this exact lesson again in QoS. We see Leiter with Beam, who is only concerned with the American's interest in the supposed oil. That makes Leiter, who's supposed to be a "good guy," look suspicious. Also, we learn a little more about Mathis and his cover.

[Daddy Bond]

How to tail people. In CR, every time he followed someone (Dimitrios, Carlos, Vesper), he was spotted. In QoS, he was able to follow Camille on a motorcycle and not be noticed--even when he rode the bike into a boat. That's a stealth skill!

Wow, interesting point.

[Daddy Bond]

Let me add that Aston Martin has become his car of choice - having BOTH won an Aston and having received two from MI6 (both of which he ruined).

[Marcato]

Until you've killed at least a couple of people, you can only see in black and white. It's just like dropping acid, only a lickle bick more anti-social.

Reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon where Calvin asks his dad why old photos are black and white. It goes something like this:

Calvin: Dad, why are old photos in black and white?
Dad: Because the world was black and white at that time. The world started having color sometime around the 1920's or 1930's, I think.
Calvin: Then why aren't old paintings in black and white?
Dad: Because, they turned color along with the rest of the world in the 1930's.
Calvin: Then why didn't these old black and white photos turn color as well?
Dad: Because they were photos of a black and white world.
Dad grins and walks away. Calvin has a confused look.

NOTE: This is truly bad parenting, but also VERY funny.

I can imagine it - the Dad, sitting in the sofa-chair, reads an important article in the newspaper and tries to get rid of calvin becaurse he disturbes

[BlackFire]

[*]Dont sleep with pissed off gals on a vendetta, even if they are hot as Camille

If I was Bond, I wouldn't be able to do that. I mean.. Camille is so damn hot!

[Double-Oh Agent]

Here's two unmentioned ones:

That he looks much better in a tailored tuxedo. (CR)

How to desecrate a good friend's body (and memory). (QOS)

[David Schofield]

That standards of handsomeness aren't what they once were.

And that, even though you've been to Eton and through military officer training, wear top-range clothing, watches, cufflinks, some people still mistake you for a rough-.

There's something wrong with that.

[Elvenstar]

I will really be happy if he continues to learn further.
Main thing (I hope) he learned is think first, shoot 2nd and not to be hot tempered but only think about his job. So he becomes a man with no feelings? doing his job and trying to take advantage of the benefits it brings...

Edited by Elvenstar, 24 February 2009 - 01:51 PM.