35 replies to this topic

[Righty007]

Was Norman Burton miscast as Felix Leiter in Diamonds Are Forever?

No and here's why.

[DR76]

I liked Norman Burton as Felix Leiter. He had a sardonic wit that I liked very much.

[DamnCoffee]

I liked Burton aswell. He had great chemistry with Connery. And he was POURE american, I liked him, it's one of the things that make Diamonds Are Forever fun. He's in my top five favorite Leiters.

Behind Wright, Lord, Hedison and Nutter.

[Righty007]

Behind White, Lord, Hedison and Nutter.

You mean Wright?

[DamnCoffee]

Yess. I beg your pardon.

I was in a rush to get to a Baptism this morning.

[Turn]

I wouldn't say miscast, just uninspired casting. I saw a theory years ago about such casting decisions were to make the Bond actor appear younger and more suave, as was Connery's case in 1971, thus we got Norman Burton.

My question is how then did we end up with Cec Linder in 1964 when Connery was at or near his peak and no cover-ups for age were necessary? For whatever reason, I've always thought Linder resembled Rodney Dangerfield.

One possibility is the producers didn't want to end up with a Jack Lord situation where the actor wanted higher billing and may detract from the lead. But how did we end up with a younger, almost surfer-guy Leiter the next film? Lots of questions.

[Righty007]

Did anybody read my article with my theory as to why he wasn't miscast?

[Mister E]

Was Norman Burton miscast as Felix Leiter in Diamonds Are Forever?

No and here's why.

He really didn't but I hated the characterization of Felix Leiter in DAF. Leiter became this corny, 50's beat cop.

[Scottlee]

Burton wasn't bad but I preferred most of the other Leiters (Bar Terry and Linder). It's annoying how often they've changed the actor, especially during those earlier years when the character was used a lot. Let's hope Jeffrey Wright sticks around for a long long time and finally gives this character the respect he deserves.

[plankattack]

I thought he was alright - he injected some life into his performance (more so than say, Linder or Hedison in LALD) and being down there in John (I misplaced my personality somewhere) Terry in the poll is a bit harsh. The problem has never been with the actor - it's been with the scripts. Leiter has never been given his due as a character but the casting of Wright is a sign that things are changing for the better.

Personal fave? Nutter, but again the script reduces the role to the part of a yes-man.

[jaguar007]

What about a Felix Leiter set of films with Thomas Jane, or Matthew McConaughey as Leiter?

I disagree. I would rather have them focus on bring us good quality Bond films than a spin off series of Felix Leiter films.

[plankattack]

What about a Felix Leiter set of films with Thomas Jane, or Matthew McConaughey as Leiter?

I disagree. I would rather have them focus on bring us good quality Bond films than a spin off series of Felix Leiter films.

Quite. Although the thought of a Halle Berry as Jinx/Norman Burton as Leiter double-act spin-off series would be.......no, don't go there!

[jaguar007]

Did anybody read my article with my theory as to why he wasn't miscast?

yes. It is pretty clear and has was noted in Steven J Ruben's The James Bond Films that Burton's casting was to make Connery look younger and better.

It is kind of funny that many people say Craig looks older than 40, but in QoS he is only 1 year younger than Connery in DAF.

[00Twelve]

Did anybody read my article with my theory as to why he wasn't miscast?

Well, I did, of course, but...

It was down to needing a good character actor who wouldn't come close to overshadowing Connery even at his less-than-Bondian physical state. Burton was perfect as a sidekick-type. As the script was more on the kitschy side, Leiter was adjusted to play more like a cop than an agent of America's foreign intelligence service.

You're right, though, Chris-- he'd have made a killer biology professor.

[crheath]

Did anybody read my article with my theory as to why he wasn't miscast?

yes. It is pretty clear and has was noted in Steven J Ruben's The James Bond Films that Burton's casting was to make Connery look younger and better.

It is kind of funny that many people say Craig looks older than 40, but in QoS he is only 1 year younger than Connery in DAF.

I noticed that too. I think it's because Craig works out before every Bond movie. Connery was way out of shape in DAF.

[double o ego]

I wouldn't say miscast, just uninspired casting. I saw a theory years ago about such casting decisions were to make the Bond actor appear younger and more suave, as was Connery's case in 1971, thus we got Norman Burton.

My question is how then did we end up with Cec Linder in 1964 when Connery was at or near his peak and no cover-ups for age were necessary? For whatever reason, I've always thought Linder resembled Rodney Dangerfield.

One possibility is the producers didn't want to end up with a Jack Lord situation where the actor wanted higher billing and may detract from the lead. But how did we end up with a younger, almost surfer-guy Leiter the next film? Lots of questions.

Because EON has never taken the character seriously. They've frivilously cast him every time he's appeared, with the most frivilous casting decision being made for LTK.

It's interesting how EON has never attempted to spin off any of the characters into their own movies. They paid lip service to spinning off Wai Lin and Jinx into their own films, but other than that they've made no real moves towards creating films around supporting characters, and I find that odd.

Summer of 2009 will bring us an X-Men spinoff movie starring Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. Batman Returns was the catalyst for spinning off Catwoman (2004), and even though the movie was bad, the decision to create stand alone films for characters in the Batman universe was not. SONY is developing a VENOM spin-off. And there's been plenty of tv shows that have been spun off into successful movies and vice versa.

It's a shame that with a character universe as large as the Bond legacy has, that one of these characters has not been prepared and readied to make the transition to it's own series of films. What about a Felix Leiter set of films with Thomas Jane, or Matthew McConaughey as Leiter?

If EON was more diligent about expanding the Bond brand, they'd be sitting on film reserves that would rival the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia.

I know that if I ever bought the rights to the James Bond films, I'd be pimping Young James Bond, James Bond Jr, the Gardner novels, Felix Leiter, spin off other characters...maybe even do a dramatic film about Blofeld and why he went bad like 20th Century Fox is doing with MAGNETO. There's gold up in them thar Bond hills, if only EON would bother mining it.

And yes, Norm Burton was miscast, but enjoyable to watch nonetheless. Clearly Rik Van Nutter and Jack Lord were the closest to what Fleming wrote, with Lord's slow speech earily similiar to what Fleming described.

The reason is, because those characters you've mentioned play huge roles and even have an entire comic book mini series dedicated to them. They're established characters that have a huge fanbase. Wolverine, though isn't such a great example because he's probably the 2nd most popular character Marvel have after spider-man of course. The x-men movies might as well have just been wolverine movies because the rest of the characters got shafted in favour of over exposng wolverine. It only stands to reason that wolverine would get his own movie. As for a magneto movie, it may be planned but I don't see it happening, not a for a while yet, especially with the next couple of years being saturated with so many comic book movies, the biggest being the marvel cross over, the avengers. Sony's venom, again, will no doubt be deservedly put on the back burner, it's just not a priority, especially with the next 2 spidey films being penned as I type this.

Regardless, these characters all have their respective fanbases that are huge. The supporting cast of the Bond movies may have fan bases but they're not big enough to warrent giving them their own movie. It's all about James Bond and the studio would do well to ensure they don't over expose and trivialise the release of the Bond brand.

However, I do agree that I'd like to see the young Bond books being adapted into maybe a bunch of straight to DVD animated movies, not sure but I'd like to see it adapted though.

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I watched DAF and TMWTGG back to back a few weeks ago, and I was really taken aback at how much older Connery looked than Moore (who is three years Connery's senior.) In TMWTGG, Moore could easily pass for a man in his thirties, while in DAF, (made three years earlier,) Connery looked like somebody's ing uncle.

Edited by Dr.Mirakle32, 03 December 2008 - 04:34 AM.

[DR76]

I thought he was alright - he injected some life into his performance (more so than say, Linder or Hedison in LALD) and being down there in John (I misplaced my personality somewhere) Terry in the poll is a bit harsh.

To this day, I do not understand why John Terry's Felix Leiter is held in such low esteem. Because he didn't have that many appearances in "THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS"? Frankly, I thought that his brief appearances beat Cec Linder in "GOLDFINGER" any day. As far as I'm concerned, Linder was the worst Leiter. David Hedison's performance in "LICENSE TO KILL" was a letdown after "LIVE AND LET DIE".

[Mister E]

I thought he was alright - he injected some life into his performance (more so than say, Linder or Hedison in LALD) and being down there in John (I misplaced my personality somewhere) Terry in the poll is a bit harsh.

To this day, I do not understand why John Terry's Felix Leiter is held in such low esteem. Because he didn't have that many appearances in "THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS"? Frankly, I thought that his brief appearances beat Cec Linder in "GOLDFINGER" any day. As far as I'm concerned, Linder was the worst Leiter. David Hedison's performance in "LICENSE TO KILL" was a letdown after "LIVE AND LET DIE".

At least Cec Linder's Leiter Goldfinger had a personality. John Terry as Leiter was a frickin' robot.

[00Twelve]

I thought he was alright - he injected some life into his performance (more so than say, Linder or Hedison in LALD) and being down there in John (I misplaced my personality somewhere) Terry in the poll is a bit harsh.

To this day, I do not understand why John Terry's Felix Leiter is held in such low esteem. Because he didn't have that many appearances in "THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS"? Frankly, I thought that his brief appearances beat Cec Linder in "GOLDFINGER" any day. As far as I'm concerned, Linder was the worst Leiter. David Hedison's performance in "LICENSE TO KILL" was a letdown after "LIVE AND LET DIE".

At least Cec Linder's Leiter Goldfinger had a personality. John Terry as Leiter was a frickin' robot.

Yeah, Linder may not have been convincing as the same guy who was Jack Lord just a couple years prior, but John Terry's turn was just flaccid.

However, half of that is the writing which seemed designed to do nothing really interesting with Felix but shoehorn him into the movie. That could have been any of Moore's non-Leiter allies. Funny thing is that Terry is quite good (IMO) in season 2 of 24. That's why I have to put some of the blame on the writing. It's got to be the most generic Felix appearance in the series.

[Turn]

I thought he was alright - he injected some life into his performance (more so than say, Linder or Hedison in LALD) and being down there in John (I misplaced my personality somewhere) Terry in the poll is a bit harsh.

To this day, I do not understand why John Terry's Felix Leiter is held in such low esteem. Because he didn't have that many appearances in "THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS"? Frankly, I thought that his brief appearances beat Cec Linder in "GOLDFINGER" any day. As far as I'm concerned, Linder was the worst Leiter. David Hedison's performance in "LICENSE TO KILL" was a letdown after "LIVE AND LET DIE".

I agree here. The guy was only in two scenes and maybe his delivery wasn't that great, but at least he seemed like somebody Bond's age, not his uncle. And the fact he had two beautiful agents working for him in TLD was a nice twist for Felix nobody mentions.

As far as the scripts go, although Goldfinger is one of the best, Leiter lines like "James, where's your butler friend?" or "Let's get back to the motel, I'm bushed" are delivered badly and make the film more dated than it is.

Beyond that, how did Leiter know Odd Job was trapped in Fort Knox with Bond? And can anybody truly imagine Linder's Leiter doing better with the ladies in Jamaica than Bond? Maybe it was the hat he was wearing.

[dogmanstar]

Miscast? No . . . just underused.

[Safari Suit]

Because EON has never taken the character seriously. They've frivilously cast him every time he's appeared, with the most frivilous casting decision being made for LTK.

That is because, and I know at least two people who have already posted in this thread will disagree with me vehemently, Leiter is not a terribly interesting character and certainly not one who ever seems to have caught on with the general public. Only when an actor who has a decent level of presence or charisma himself played the role has he been particularly noteworthy. If Wright stays in the role for a few more films, we will at least have the first real chance of the character being consistantly entertaining.

[Harmsway]

That is because, and I know at least two people who have already posted in this thread will disagree with me vehemently, Leiter is not a terribly interesting character and certainly not one who ever seems to have caught on with the general public. Only when an actor who has a decent level of presence or charisma himself played the role has he been particularly noteworthy. If Wright stays in the role for a few more films, we will at least have the first real chance of the character being consistantly entertaining.

I entirely agree.

[plankattack]

I don't disagree that he isn't a major character in the general public's mind - but isn't that as much due to the fact that in nine appearances he's been played by seven different actors. It's hard for any character in a series to "catch on" if the portrayer keeps chopping and changing.

I think EON had every intention when they started in giving Felix his due - but weren't Jack Lord's demands (salary, equal footing with Bond as a character) deemed to high? So rather than get caught up with the solution (keeping an actor in the role), they downgraded the problem (downplaying the character).

But clearly EON of this generation are going the route that we fans would prefer. Wright has appeared twice and you get a sense from interviews that he's open to appearing in more. With that consistency then, you can give the part the same attention as M and other recurring characters.

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I think it's funny that people complain that Cec Linder was too old for the part, when in reality, he was a year younger than Lord.

[Peckinpah1976]

Funny thing is that Terry is quite good (IMO) in season 2 of 24. That's why I have to put some of the blame on the writing. It's got to be the most generic Felix appearance in the series.

I think it's more a case of the actor improving with age; around the time of TLD he gave some astonishingly bad performances in other films (Hawk the Slayer has to be seen to be believed!) yet he has carved out a fairly respectable career for himself in recent years on U.S television - you're right about his performance in 24 being pretty good, along with similar work in the likes of E.R.

Edited by Peckinpah1976, 05 December 2008 - 12:49 AM.

[00Twelve]

That is because, and I know at least two people who have already posted in this thread will disagree with me vehemently, Leiter is not a terribly interesting character and certainly not one who ever seems to have caught on with the general public. Only when an actor who has a decent level of presence or charisma himself played the role has he been particularly noteworthy. If Wright stays in the role for a few more films, we will at least have the first real chance of the character being consistantly entertaining.

I entirely agree.

EON's Felix never had the great chemistry with Bond that Fleming's version had. From the beginning, he was downplayed to make Bond the undisputed hero. We never get those neat little bits where Felix gets the drop on Bond and they have a playful little fight (where Felix holds his own). No, in EON's world, Bond just socks Felix in the gut and Felix looks like a boob.

I do have to agree that Felix has been best when he's been coolest (though I do have a soft spot for Hedison, who pulled off the "buddy" dynamic best). Fortunately, Felix is on a high note now. While I lament that he wasn't written as three-dimensionally as in the novels, I wouldn't have him any other way than how he is in the series right now.

Funny thing is that Terry is quite good (IMO) in season 2 of 24. That's why I have to put some of the blame on the writing. It's got to be the most generic Felix appearance in the series.

I think it's more a case of the actor improving with age; around the time of TLD he gave some astonishingly bad performances in other films (Hawk the Slayer has to be seen to be believed!) yet he has carved out a fairly respectable career for himself in recent years on U.S television - you're right about his performance in 24 being pretty good, along with similar work in the likes of E.R.

You're probably right about his acting. Being a student of the discipline at the start of my career, I tend to want to give some actors the benefit of the doubt that they've thought about the roles more than it appears. But sometimes, that's just not the case.

Good for Terry that he's better now.

[MajorB]

EON's Felix never had the great chemistry with Bond that Fleming's version had. From the beginning, he was downplayed to make Bond the undisputed hero. We never get those neat little bits where Felix gets the drop on Bond and they have a playful little fight (where Felix holds his own). No, in EON's world, Bond just socks Felix in the gut and Felix looks like a boob.

Agree with this. I thought Bernie Casey in NSNA was the "best" Felix because he (1) seemed like Bond's contemporary, (2) seemed like Bond's near-equal, (3) came across as someone who'd known Bond a long time and had an easy familiarity with him, and (4) seemed like a pretty cool guy himself. The way he and Connery played off each other was fun and seemed to come closer to the Fleming version of their relationship than Eon ever achieved.

Some of that, of course, is in the writing in addition to the acting. And that's why I would say Burton was not miscast, because he wasn't meant to be Fleming's Felix. He did a good job playing the part as written--part associate, but also part authority figure who isn't always pleased with Bond's iconoclastic approach to his misssion. Almost a surrogate M at times. For that, I thought he was well suited. But it's not the Felix I prefer.

As for John Terry, I think his performance was hamstrung by its exceptional brevity and by the clumsy way his introductory scene was shot. It didn't help that he had to revoice that scene, making him seem even less "present." Given a decent role, he might have had more chance to establish himself--or not. Pity we'll never know.

[B. Ret Smythe]

I think in the next bond film Leiter should use the same control mines that Bond used in goldeneye and say he got the idea from bond. And it reminds bond of his old friend 006.