184 replies to this topic

[Double-Oh Agent]

There is no argument as to whether Elvis' persona was meant to be satirical. Elvis was intended to be the typical Bond henchman turned upside down, and his name is the final nail in the coffin for any such argument.

Whether you appreciate their intent or not is another question. I love it. I, too, pissed my pants thinking about Elvis' lack thereof.

Why does Elvis' name prove that his persona is meant to be satirical? What's funny about Elvis' name? It's just a regular, semi-exotic name.

[_Ozu_]

On their meeting at Perla de las Dunas with General Medrano, after Greene finishes eating his apple, he gives the rest of it to Elvis.

It isn't shown in the movie, but I remember seen a photo of him with the 'WTF' face when that happens...

Oh wait, here I have it

 QOS.jpg   47.2KB   71 downloads

[00Twelve]

I can imagine the thinking process going something like this:
"Ok, we've got Greene written. How about a henchman for him?"
"Well... Greene doesn't really need a henchman."
"True. Should we skip it altogether then?"
"Naw. Let's have some fun with it."

Totally agreed.

There is no argument as to whether Elvis' persona was meant to be satirical. Elvis was intended to be the typical Bond henchman turned upside down, and his name is the final nail in the coffin for any such argument.

Again, totally agreed.

[dinovelvet]

On their meeting at Perla de las Dunas with General Medrano, after Greene finishes eating his apple, he gives the rest of it to Elvis.

It isn't shown in the movie, but I remember seen a photo of him with the 'WTF' face when that happens...

Oh wait, here I have it

 QOS.jpg   47.2KB   71 downloads

LOL, Elvis' expression is priceless

[sharpshooter]

Quite. That Elvis is glutton for punishment. Nobody to complain to either, or it's a bullet between the eyes.

[Innukchuck]

Poor Elvis...

Awesome character, but i expect a hulking henchmen on Bond 23.

[dodge]

Ah, that Elvis. Underused, as many seem to think?

No.

Just the opposite. He's thoroughly used and abused. And to an original achievement for Bond!

After seeing QOS for the second time last night, I've come to the conclusion that Elvis may be the first truly comical character in all of the Bond films. And that's all that he is; a victim of The Joke.

Elvis is the most disrespected villain in all of Bondom.

Notice his scenes:

Tries to act studly and imposing as Camille comes storming down the docks after Greene. She whacks him away and says something to the effect of "Touch me again and I'll flip ya. Flip ya for real." (I went a little Benecio on you there, to honor the similarities between LTK and QOS.)

On the plane with the CIA. He starts the conversation off... or does he? He tries to. He says something to the effect of "So, are we ready?" And Beam doesn't give him the time of day. Completely ignored. As the phone with Bond's picture gets passed around, it finally lands in Elvis' lap. Actually, it get chucked at him.

At the Opera. He's up there watching the play. Loving it, in fact. He turns to the other guard to share in his appreciation and his gaze is repelled by a face of iron. He turns back to watch the opera dejected but with a face that looks like he might cry from the unearthly beauty of the performance.

At Greene's party. Of course he takes the headward dive down the stairs. Only to lose his toupee at the bottom of the fall.
At the exchange between Greene and Medrano. Standing there like a buffoon with his neck collar on.

His demise: First of all, Greene says nothing. Just puts him in place... like a... PUPPET. Now notice when the flames reach his body...

THEY BLOW HIS PANTS OFF!

I kid you not. His pants go flying off with the wave of heat, and for a few frames we see him standing in his fixed position, in tighties, I believe.

Genius!!!

Elvis: the epitome of cool, right? How ironic. How very ironic. Thanks Mr. Forster and team.

***An extra special salute to IMTHEMONEYPENNY for first making this observation and pointing it out to me. It probably would have been months before I picked up on it.***

This might have made a lick of sense if Forster had intended it and had known how to shoot the damn scene. I only knew it was 'Elvis' who'd taken the fall because it was pointed out here and, on a second viewing, I spotted the brace on his neck. similarly, even on a second viewing, I'd have missed the fact that his rug was knocked off--if I hadn't been alerted here. As for the pants, I'm convinced the reason we get to see the Elvis dummy in briefs is because of lazy filmmaking. It's just too fast to register. And I don't believe a logical case can be made that these are Forster's very points: that the unnamed Elvis isn't even worth the time it takes to record him on film. Woody Allen got it right--in Manhattan, I think--when he had himself lensed walking along the embankment with his girl. In excitement as he talks he flails his arms--and the left arm knocks a dude over a bridge. Woody spent precisely enough time for us to know that the dude had gone over the railing but wasn't important in the scheme of things.

With all due respect, you are completely wrong, Dodge. Elvis, as 0012 said, is the fully intended mockery of the hulking henchman stereotype. Look at the laundry list!

You only knew about the hairpiece 'cause it was said here, but then how did it get said here? The depantsment is not 'too fast to register' either. I caught a glimpse the first time around and was certain on the second viewing, and I am not the only poster to have noticed it. Maybe it's too fast for the first time viewer, but who made the rule that everything is supposed to be taken in on the first attempt? Face it: QOS demands that you pay attention.

I can imagine the thinking process going something like this:
"Ok, we've got Greene written. How about a henchman for him?"
"Well... Greene doesn't really need a henchman."
"True. Should we skip it altogether then?"
"Naw. Let's have some fun with it."

There is no argument as to whether Elvis' persona was meant to be satirical. Elvis was intended to be the typical Bond henchman turned upside down, and his name is the final nail in the coffin for any such argument. Whether you appreciate their intent or not is another question. I love it. I, too, pissed my pants thinking about Elvis' lack thereof.

Oh, there you go again, as RR would say. There's no argument, you say. You're wrong. there is. Elvis isn't even named in the film--and don't tell me part of the fun because the issue of unnamed characters was raised with CR. Whatever was intended for Elvis simply isn't there right now. And the fact that you've noticed things proving a point you already believe doesn't mean diddly to Dodger. There've also been sightings of Big Foot and flying saucers. Real Elvis sightings are reported every year. Grown men and women are convinced their neighbors come from Mars. Whatever you say about Elvis --and I could also add the fact that Greene helps him aim his pistol--amounts to nothing on the screen. Forster can't do comedy, he has no sense of timing. Your thread is entitled Elvis the KING of comedy...but if he was really intended to be, he's a sorry stooge not worth our time.

One last point: You've a holy to-do here, Judo, about the pants being blown off. There's no way you'll ever convince me that Forster failed to notice the dummy's pants were blown away. Even Martin Campbell was capable of missing things. Do you remember the early AICN review, wherein Harry begged them to edit the scene showing Eva Green's filthy blackened feet in bed?

Now you've got me thinking now...maybe that was meant to be high comedy too?

[Cody]

I noticed and enjoyed several of the Elements of Elvis during my viewings - the belt buckle, being ignored on the plane, the look at the opera, the toupee, the neck brace, his pants being blown off.

I thought he was a fun character before, but after reading the other comments and seeing that picture of the apple pass, I fully realize... Elvis is awesome.

[_Ozu_]

Elvis is in fact named in the film

When Medrano joins Greene at Port Au Prince, Elvis hands Greene a map of Bolivia to show Medrano the piece of land he wants. Dominic says 'Merci Elvis' as he gives him the map.

It a 'Blink and you'll miss it' moment, but it's in there.

[Innukchuck]

ELVIS FACTS:

- Captain Kirk inspired himself on Elvis Greene.

- When Elvis Greene sneezes, he creates hurricanes.

- Hitler commited suicide because he attacked Elvis Greene's country.

- Elvis Grene build a Lego monument when he was a kid. It was named the Great wall of China.

- Elvis exploding trousers are so awesome that gone back in time and sailed the Titanic.

- Elvis Greene sells his bottled urine. He calls it Chuck Norris.

- When Clark Kent is in danger, he becomes Superman. When Superman is in danger, he becomes Chuck Norris. When Chuck Norris is in danger, he becomes Elvis Greene.

[dodge]

ELVIS FACTS:

- Captain Kirk inspired himself on Elvis Greene.

- When Elvis Greene sneezes, he creates hurricanes.

- Hitler commited suicide because he attacked Elvis Greene's country.

- Elvis Grene build a Lego monument when he was a kid. It was named the Great wall of China.

- Elvis exploding trousers are so awesome that gone back in time and sailed the Titanic.

- Elvis Greene sells his bottled urine. He calls it Chuck Norris.

- When Clark Kent is in danger, he becomes Superman. When Superman is in danger, he becomes Chuck Norris. When Chuck Norris is in danger, he becomes Elvis Greene.

This makes far more sense to me than anything I've read here, except for my own posts. Vargas is a far more convincing candidate for the role Judo awards to Elvis: the turned on his head henchman. In fact, Vargas figures into Judo's avatar: "Name it and he didn't do it" indeed. I'm beginning to feel slightly alarmed by Judo's sudden penchant for henchman who get no respect. Anything that we should know?

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

Ah, that Elvis. Underused, as many seem to think?

No.

Just the opposite. He's thoroughly used and abused. And to an original achievement for Bond!

After seeing QOS for the second time last night, I've come to the conclusion that Elvis may be the first truly comical character in all of the Bond films. And that's all that he is; a victim of The Joke.

Elvis is the most disrespected villain in all of Bondom.

Notice his scenes:

Tries to act studly and imposing as Camille comes storming down the docks after Greene. She whacks him away and says something to the effect of "Touch me again and I'll flip ya. Flip ya for real." (I went a little Benecio on you there, to honor the similarities between LTK and QOS.)

On the plane with the CIA. He starts the conversation off... or does he? He tries to. He says something to the effect of "So, are we ready?" And Beam doesn't give him the time of day. Completely ignored. As the phone with Bond's picture gets passed around, it finally lands in Elvis' lap. Actually, it get chucked at him.

At the Opera. He's up there watching the play. Loving it, in fact. He turns to the other guard to share in his appreciation and his gaze is repelled by a face of iron. He turns back to watch the opera dejected but with a face that looks like he might cry from the unearthly beauty of the performance.

At Greene's party. Of course he takes the headward dive down the stairs. Only to lose his toupee at the bottom of the fall.

At the exchange between Greene and Medrano. Standing there like a buffoon with his neck collar on.

His demise: First of all, Greene says nothing. Just puts him in place... like a... PUPPET. Now notice when the flames reach his body...

THEY BLOW HIS PANTS OFF!

I kid you not. His pants go flying off with the wave of heat, and for a few frames we see him standing in his fixed position, in tighties, I believe.

Genius!!!

Elvis: the epitome of cool, right? How ironic. How very ironic. Thanks Mr. Forster and team.

***An extra special salute to IMTHEMONEYPENNY for first making this observation and pointing it out to me. It probably would have been months before I picked up on it.***

I'd say you got it. This is from Taubman himself...

Q: So is Elvis meant to be comic relief then?

Taubman: This Elvis is a bit of a goofball. He thinks he's all that but he's not really. ... He's not a comic guy. He definitely takes himself very serious, but maybe by his taking himself too serious he may become friendly. He's not a psychopath. If you meet him you may be suspicious of him but, no, he's definitely not a psychopath.

http://movies.ign.co...4/874700p2.html

Another little moment from the opera that you can't see in the final film is when Bond confronts Greene and Co. on the stairs you see Elvis part his jacket and put his hands his hips making like he has a gun. When the other goons chase after Bond you see Elvis redoing his jacket as he escapes with Greene.

[Major Tallon]

If they bring Elvis back, perhaps he could have his own film, where his principal adversary would be Casino Royale's Agent Carter. A duel of incompenent second bananas.

[The ides of Mark]

Poor Elvis...

Awesome character, but i expect a hulking henchmen on Bond 23.

Yes, and a very menacing one too hopefully.

[Lazenby]

Ah, that Elvis. Underused, as many seem to think?

No.

Just the opposite. He's thoroughly used and abused. And to an original achievement for Bond!

After seeing QOS for the second time last night, I've come to the conclusion that Elvis may be the first truly comical character in all of the Bond films. And that's all that he is; a victim of The Joke.

Elvis is the most disrespected villain in all of Bondom.

Notice his scenes:

Tries to act studly and imposing as Camille comes storming down the docks after Greene. She whacks him away and says something to the effect of "Touch me again and I'll flip ya. Flip ya for real." (I went a little Benecio on you there, to honor the similarities between LTK and QOS.)

On the plane with the CIA. He starts the conversation off... or does he? He tries to. He says something to the effect of "So, are we ready?" And Beam doesn't give him the time of day. Completely ignored. As the phone with Bond's picture gets passed around, it finally lands in Elvis' lap. Actually, it get chucked at him.

At the Opera. He's up there watching the play. Loving it, in fact. He turns to the other guard to share in his appreciation and his gaze is repelled by a face of iron. He turns back to watch the opera dejected but with a face that looks like he might cry from the unearthly beauty of the performance.

At Greene's party. Of course he takes the headward dive down the stairs. Only to lose his toupee at the bottom of the fall.

At the exchange between Greene and Medrano. Standing there like a buffoon with his neck collar on.

His demise: First of all, Greene says nothing. Just puts him in place... like a... PUPPET. Now notice when the flames reach his body...

THEY BLOW HIS PANTS OFF!

I kid you not. His pants go flying off with the wave of heat, and for a few frames we see him standing in his fixed position, in tighties, I believe.

Genius!!!

Elvis: the epitome of cool, right? How ironic. How very ironic. Thanks Mr. Forster and team.

***An extra special salute to IMTHEMONEYPENNY for first making this observation and pointing it out to me. It probably would have been months before I picked up on it.***

The right choice of character. A joke of a bad guy for a joke of a movie.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

A couple new observations on Elvis my sister picked up on, first off she thinks Elvis is a teetotaler, he drinks tea when the others are drinking alcohol in the CIA plane. And while everyone is drinking champagne at Greene's party, Elvis has a colada style drink, my sister thinks is probably virgin drink (how fitting ). She's not sure, but she thinks Elvis' toup might be on backwards which I didn't notice. She says it's longer in the back than it should be, but then she's no expert on men's hairpieces. It does make a bit of sense with the short nearly non existent bangs.

Of course now that I pointed out Elvis and his foibles, my sister laughs every time we see him pat his toupee down which he does quite a few times.

[BoogieBond]

I think some viewers believe that on the plane when he says something and it doesn't go anywhere it's a flaw of the script, but you're right he's simply ignored by the others.

Thanks, first time I saw the movie I didn't get it. Seemed like a vacant moment. I mean all he was saying on the plane is "how much longer ?" but yes, combined with all the other sections, how easy Camille gets past him in Haiti, the Opera stare etc... he was a bit of a waste of space as a henchman/right arm man. What would he have done if Bond confronted him in the Hotel ? run in the opposite direction as fast as he could.

[Judo chop]

Why does Elvis' name prove that his persona is meant to be satirical? What's funny about Elvis' name? It's just a regular, semi-exotic name.

Wha??? Just a regular semi-exotic name, you say? Elvis is not a name, it's practically an idea.

Elvis, the rock star, is one of the 'coolest' personalities in pop culture. The writers of QOS created a character who is the brunt of the joke, and is all times most uncool. The fact that they give him a name that is the antithesis of 'uncool' is evidence that they intended to create what they created.

Forster can't do comedy, he has no sense of timing.

Then why do I laugh? At this point I'm feeling the need to return the serve: You seem to be desperately trying to find evidence to support a point that you already believe.

One last point: You've a holy to-do here, Judo, about the pants being blown off. There's no way you'll ever convince me that Forster failed to notice the dummy's pants were blown away.

I don't understand. I'm saying Forster DID know about the pants. It was the capper on the big joke. Elvis' blunders start out small... a dis here, a goofy look there. And then it escalates to physical comedy. A fall down the stairs... a neckbrace. And it culminates at the most base humor known to man, second only to the testicle-whack: Depantsing.

Are we understanding each other? Elvis was intentionally written to be uncool, disprected and, in turn, funny. There are no accidents with his character. That's all I'm saying.

Now what are you saying?

Are you saying that you agree the intent was there, but that it failed in execution thanks to Forster's inability to do comedy? So far the only argument you've made to this point is that the hairpiece and the pants happen too quickly for you to notice on the first try. I mean, if this is your point, then let's just be done with the conversation now because 1) I saw the comedy, and 2) it tickles me something terrible. I'm not going to argue about what you should find funny.

Or are you saying that they intended Elvis to be a wholly serious character from the get go? This would be your holy-to do, not mine. Elvis is a complete tool in every single scene he's in. That's not a result of me wanting to believe anything. That's right up there on the screen. It seems to me you're trying to go this route by undermining a scene or two with arguments that amount to "Forster can't accomplish it, so it cannot be there".

[Mr. Blofeld]

I think Mr. dodge wants to get the heck out of Dodge right now...

[Double-Oh Agent]

The only thing I find even REMOTELY funny about anything to do with Elvis is Fields tripping him down the stairs and hardly that. Nothing else is funny. His character does nothing and goes nowhere--and the depantsing thing, if indeed on purpose, is just plain stupid.

[dodge]

I think Mr. dodge wants to get the heck out of Dodge right now...

And why would I want to get out of Dodge, as you say? Because you think I'm being bested by Judo? Au contraire. I believe Judo's in the miserable position of waiting two years for a movie that wasn't worth the wait. And he simply can't bear to admit it, so he's looking all over creation for proof that the movie's divine. It is not. In the same way, he slightly resembles--no disrespect intended, this is just a metaphor--a poor dude who comes to the Prom with his date: a witch with a wart on the end of her nose and a snaggle-toothed smile. Rather than admit his date is less than perfect, he takes to the podium and cries:

"That's the way I like it! That's the way noses and smiles should be!"

I reckon I'll just stay in Dodge because that ain't for me. Whether or not, Marc Forster intended for Elvis to be funny is beside the point. It wouldn't matter in the least if Marc kept a journal chronicling his intentions. What counts is what we get on screen. And I can tell you, from two viewings: NO ONE in the cinema laughed, not once, at Elvis. I spoke with several people who saw the film--and not one of them noticed Elvis' rug...nor did any one of them know that it was Elvis who had fallen down the stairs. Furthermore, none of them noticed the pants. Let Judo Chop enjoy his date. I'm pleased for him. I'll stay in Dodge and go to the Prom with a hottie who knows what real fun is about. THE TRANSPORTER 3, anyone? BOURNE 4?

[HildebrandRarity]

I think Mr. dodge wants to get the heck out of Dodge right now...

...you think I'm being bested by Judo?

...I believe Judo's in the miserable position of waiting two years for a movie that wasn't worth the wait. And he simply can't bear to admit it, so he's looking all over creation for proof that the movie's divine. It is not.

...In the same way, he slightly resembles--no disrespect intended, this is just a metaphor--a poor dude who comes to the Prom with his date: a witch with a wart on the end of her nose and a snaggle-toothed smile.

...Whether or not, Marc Forster intended for Elvis to be funny is beside the point. It wouldn't matter in the least if Marc kept a journal chronicling his intentions. What counts is what we get on screen. And I can tell you, from two viewings: NO ONE in the cinema laughed, not once, at Elvis. I spoke with several people who saw the film--and not one of them noticed Elvis' rug...nor did any one of them know that it was Elvis who had fallen down the stairs. Furthermore, none of them noticed the pants.

...Let Judo Chop enjoy his date. I'm pleased for him. I'll stay in Dodge and go to the Prom with a hottie who knows what real fun is about. THE TRANSPORTER 3, anyone? BOURNE 4?

Dodgy Dodge, do you really need to be so ill-spirited? Aren't we all James Bond fans?

Why resort to such nasty mockery?

Isn't humour a personal thing? Like art or music? Or beauty? Isn't it in the eye of the beholder?

There's an oddity about the character being discussed in the thread. So you chose not to bother with it. Fine. You don't like Quantum. Fine.

But do you ing need to resort to such y retort?

At least Judo Chop is adding some value with *some* insightful commentary. As are others. What are you adding?

WTF!!!

[Judo chop]

I believe Judo's in the miserable position of waiting two years for a movie that wasn't worth the wait. And he simply can't bear to admit it, so he's looking all over creation for proof that the movie's divine. It is not. In the same way, he slightly resembles--no disrespect intended, this is just a metaphor--a poor dude who comes to the Prom with his date: a witch with a wart on the end of her nose and a snaggle-toothed smile. Rather than admit his date is less than perfect, he takes to the podium and cries:

"That's the way I like it! That's the way noses and smiles should be!"

Your analogy isn’t really that far off, Dodge. My date doesn’t turn heads right off the bat. But she’s got brains and personality. She can think for herself, and doesn’t take her cues from articles in Cosmo. After years have gone by, and Dodge’s girl has had implant after implant, undergoing artificial enhancement after artificial enhancement, trying to fend off the forces of gravity and physical decomposition, the real value of my girl will shine though. We’ll both have women with aged, tired frames, and we’ll be so old that any memory of the superficial beauty which once was will have evaporated into the ozone with the vapors of our Aqua Velva, but I’ll be left with a witty, intelligent, and playful 80 year old whose youthful nature belies her biological age and whose years of willful independence has helped her grow into a fascinating and challenging life partner, and you’ll have your withered shell nagging you, by use of some other man’s name, to apply more balm to her corns.

I’ll remind you that not long ago you scolded me for accusing you of judging a film before you had seen it. You didn’t like that, as I recall. It seems the tables have turned. One of us is obviously guilty of it here, but I won’t say who, because I promised not to.

What counts is what we get on screen.

I couldn’t agree more.

[HildebrandRarity]

The above assumes that the person behind the persona actually has what it takes to pull in a hottie in the first place. Anyone can put up a front on an anonymous forum.

Judo Chop is The King!

[Judo chop]

The above assumes that the person behind the persona actually has what it takes to pull in a hottie in the first place.

‘What it takes’ to pull in such a creature, is a roll of 20’s. Dodge’s date is DAD; what happens when you throw a -load of money into breast enhancements, botox, fur coats, and gallons of mascara.

My date has been saving her own money since she was six and has spent it on higher education, world travel and appreciation of the finer things in life.

Judo Chop is The King!

I love you too, Hildy.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

I think some viewers believe that on the plane when he says something and it doesn't go anywhere it's a flaw of the script, but you're right he's simply ignored by the others.

Thanks, first time I saw the movie I didn't get it. Seemed like a vacant moment. I mean all he was saying on the plane is "how much longer ?" but yes, combined with all the other sections, how easy Camille gets past him in Haiti, the Opera stare etc... he was a bit of a waste of space as a henchman/right arm man. What would he have done if Bond confronted him in the Hotel ? run in the opposite direction as fast as he could.

Agreed. Elvis seems more of a hanger-on than henchmen as he'd run away from Bond in a heartbeat and had Dominic not forced him to stay put with the gun up waiting for Bond, he'd have kept on running.

My sister and I joke that Greene's mother had to have said "Mr big shot business man, you can't give a job to your cousin, Elvis?" and thus Elvis is more lackey assistant less henchman.

Oh and I forgot, Elvis wears sock garters. Now that is icing on the cake that is poor uncool Elvis.

Edited by ImTheMoneypenny, 24 November 2008 - 04:04 PM.

[BoogieBond]

Agreed. Elvis seems more of a hanger-on than henchmen as he'd run away from Bond in a heartbeat and had Dominic not forced him to stay put with the gun up waiting for Bond, he'd have kept on running.

Yes, and there's that awful saccharine moment when Camille pisses on Greene's parade at the party and as they walk away Elvis is just approaching the former contributors with "What a lovely night" or something like that. You wouldn't catch Jaws or Oddjob do that
But I agree he is a hanger-on

[HildebrandRarity]

Judo Chop is The King!

I love you too, Hildy.

Hey! Let's not carried away, alright?

I don't believe in that sort of thing.



Anyway, I think you brought something new to the table and when a fellow member reduces the debate to such a dirty level, then I think it needs to be addressed.

[Judo chop]

Judo Chop is The King!

I love you too, Hildy.

Hey! Let's not carried away, alright?

I don't believe in that sort of thing.

You don’t believe in Love? Who are you, Geoff Tate?

Anyway, I think you brought something new to the table and when a fellow member reduces the debate to such a dirty level, then I think it needs to be addressed.

Dodge wasn’t being dirty. He was just being Dodge: The DeForster. It’s all good, for Dodge and I DO believe in Love. Thanks for coming to my rescue though.

[dodge]

The above assumes that the person behind the persona actually has what it takes to pull in a hottie in the first place. Anyone can put up a front on an anonymous forum.

Judo Chop is The King!

You've three fingers pointing back atcha, Hilly. BTW, the 'hottie' analogy was to a movie...just as Judo's "date" in my post referred not to his wife or any woman but to QoS. So much for my "nasty" retort.

Judo Chop is The King!

I love you too, Hildy.

Hey! Let's not carried away, alright?

I don't believe in that sort of thing.



Anyway, I think you brought something new to the table and when a fellow member reduces the debate to such a dirty level, then I think it needs to be addressed.

Hilly, you're making an absolute fool of yourself. I've explained once and will again: there was nothing personal in my retort to Judo--and I said as much in my original post. Enough said.

I believe Judo's in the miserable position of waiting two years for a movie that wasn't worth the wait. And he simply can't bear to admit it, so he's looking all over creation for proof that the movie's divine. It is not. In the same way, he slightly resembles--no disrespect intended, this is just a metaphor--a poor dude who comes to the Prom with his date: a witch with a wart on the end of her nose and a snaggle-toothed smile. Rather than admit his date is less than perfect, he takes to the podium and cries:

"That's the way I like it! That's the way noses and smiles should be!"

Your analogy isn’t really that far off, Dodge. My date doesn’t turn heads right off the bat. But she’s got brains and personality. She can think for herself, and doesn’t take her cues from articles in Cosmo. After years have gone by, and Dodge’s girl has had implant after implant, undergoing artificial enhancement after artificial enhancement, trying to fend off the forces of gravity and physical decomposition, the real value of my girl will shine though. We’ll both have women with aged, tired frames, and we’ll be so old that any memory of the superficial beauty which once was will have evaporated into the ozone with the vapors of our Aqua Velva, but I’ll be left with a witty, intelligent, and playful 80 year old whose youthful nature belies her biological age and whose years of willful independence has helped her grow into a fascinating and challenging life partner, and you’ll have your withered shell nagging you, by use of some other man’s name, to apply more balm to her corns.

I’ll remind you that not long ago you scolded me for accusing you of judging a film before you had seen it. You didn’t like that, as I recall. It seems the tables have turned. One of us is obviously guilty of it here, but I won’t say who, because I promised not to.

What counts is what we get on screen.

I couldn’t agree more.

WTF? What does that have to do with this? In what way have tables turned when I did see the movie twice and still disagree with you?