179 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

After he shags Fields, they go to the Eco Park fundraiser party being thrown by Greene. It's an atmospheric moonlit affair.

Tarl, old bud, could you kindly check to see if has more to drink there...and then report back?

I mean, there are martinis and champagne floating around...so I can't quite recall if he drinks on screen at the party as well...wouldn't mind knowing if he's -faced while cradling a dying Mathis in the scene that follows.

Of course he is. He's become a total piss artist. It would explain the strangeness of his judgement in chucking Mathis into the dumpster on the grounds that "he wouldn't care", and also all that weird dialogue about codenames. He's three sheets to the wind!

[Judo chop]

I *might* actually know what those words mean given that I wrote them. I'll proceed in the spirit that you're being serious (as opposed to being condescending)...

Poetic symmetry:

- Greene has Fields drowned in oil...Bond leaves Greene in the middle of the desert with a container of motor oil. His dead body is later found with motor oil in his stomach.

- Camille's mother is raped in front of her (while she is helpless to do anything about it as a child) by General Medrano...she, as an adult, interrupts General Medrano from raping the hotel waitress and kills him.

- Movie begins with Bond realizing Vesper is duped by Yusef...Movie ends with Bond then preventing Corinne from being duped in the same way by Yusef.


My favourite juxtapostions:

- Palio horse race in the Piazza del Campo intercut with foot chase in Siena: Jockey falling off the horse > Bond falling in the cisterns; Horse standing in the way of oncoming horses on lap two > A steel gate closing off Bond's pathway.

- The secret Quantum meeting and then the shoot out set against the treachery and secret covenents and killings of the Tosca opera at Bregenz in Austria.

Stark contrasts?

Bond kills without thinking at the begining (although it's mostly in self defence) ... but then thinks of the big picture and doesn't kill Yusef because Yusef, under interrogation, will be a key to unlocking Quantum.

See also post # 25 for "stark visual contrasts", ie:

"the clean and sheen of MI6 offices and The Barbican in London juxtaposed against the dirt and poverty of Port Au Prince as Bond talks to M via Tanner by cell phone...

or the dark and coolness of the sink hole water resevoir intercut back and forth with the bright, parched and desolate Bolivian village that has nothing to drink..."

Thanks for asking and happy to help.

Awesome, Hildy, and I totally agree!!

I'm now waiting for a retort that goes something like:

“I noticed those too. But you see, I think those are cheap and obvious gimmicks which have been used and abused by millions of wannabe autuers since the dawn of the film reel. That's not art.”

or

“But Bond isn’t about juxtaposition or contrast. He’s about fantasy and escapism! How can we be expected to escape and enjoy ourselves when we’re constantly pushed and prodded to find Forster's hidden puzzles?!”

[Born_again_Bond]

Honestly, Craig and Quanutm are on another plane. It's merely one opinion.

Make it two. I agree with you.

Really enjoyed reading your review.

[Loomis]

Honestly, Craig and Quanutm are on another plane.

Craig, yes. QUANTUM, no.

[00Twelve]

Honestly, Craig and Quanutm are on another plane.

Craig, yes. QUANTUM, no.

Says you, Loo. In addition to loving the story and the performances, I think people are going to be debating the visual metaphors for years.

I'm beginning to think that QOS is a case of "you get it or you don't." And those who know me on here know that I don't mean such a remark to be derisive or self-righteous, I'm just getting that from the reactions. Just seems to be the case.

And for all those crying foul about using similar editing techniques to other contemporary films, I'd like to have them sit down and watch DN or FRWL again, then immediately go back and watch North By Northwest. It'll blow your mind. Terence Young certainly wasn't above taking what Hitchcock had created and adapting it to his Bond movies. Camera angles, editing techniques, narrative...the similarities are all over the place. Watch the plane chase and then watch the FRWL helicopter chase. Your jaw *might* actually hit the floor. IMO, but of course.

Now, there's all this fuss over the fast-cut editing with QOS, but why no fuss over the early films adapting techniques from other spy films?

[Tarl_Cabot]

Hmm...He had a glass of bubbly at the party too.He puts it down just before approaching Greene, Camille. He then drove afterwards! What a lousy role model !

So eleven drinks total. Maybe that's what quantum of Solace really means-getting hammered!

[BigBreach]

I *might* actually know what those words mean given that I wrote them. I'll proceed in the spirit that you're being serious (as opposed to being condescending)...

I was half being serious and half condescending apologies if you took offence.

Some reviewers on here (and other forums) just put big words in their posts to make them sound clever withouth actually knowing what they have written.

Obviously, from your post above, you have a a full vocabulary and you use it to your advantage.

Also, thanks for clearing up what you meant by those phrases, it wasn't clear from your original post what you meant. It was good to highlight the contradictions, contrasts, similarities and running themes in such a way.

Good review.

[double o ego]

QoS is a magnificent film and for me, it's flaws are, it could have been presented better i.e. the editing and this business with the shakey cam. I could see what was going on BUT I'd rather a more focused approach as opposed to frantic.
Anyway, great review, although, I wouldn't rank QoS as the best, it's in my top 3 favourites though. Just like you, I've gone back and rewatched all the Bond films, while reevaluating my opinion of the films and the actors and I have to say that, as much as I loed Connery before, I love him even more. Craig is great and is my 2nd favourite Bond but for me his real test comes when he actually takes on the role of full fledged agent 007 in Bond 23.
It's a shame that many people won't know or appreciate the dexterity attributed into QoS and that it's trivially being dismissed as garbage by some but hey, I suppose it wouldn't be a Bond movie if it didn't divide fans.

[HildebrandRarity]

I wanted to paste a post from blueman which articulates a mantra which Cubby once had and that is (paraphrasing) "The audience should never be 'ahead' of Bond."

In the following post, blueman compares Q0S to most of the Fleming Bonds (save FRWL).

But in QOS we're only introduced to characters/storylines after Bond is: we meet Camille for the first time when Bond does, and only get a glimpse of Greene and Medrano when Camille leads Bond (and us) to them. This Bond-first narrative structure stays with QOS all the way to the end (we're only privvy to Medrano and Greene's confrontation in La Perla becuase Bond and Camille are outside getting ready to attack - indeed, Forster intercuts Camille infiltrating the hotel during this bit of bad guy business). This is incredibly expert writing/directing IMO, the best Fleming novels followed this IIRC (I think FRWL might be the only significant break with this...

...but if I have a preference it's with QOS's sleeker and more Bond-centric storytelling...

I liked the post so I thought i'd add it here.

One more reason why I think Q0S is one of the best, if not *the* best, Bond films yet.

[blueman]

Gee thanks!

At first viewing I was so taken with QOS it leapfrogged everything that had come before it. I've since placed OHMSS back on that top-most pedastel, but if any two films can say they reflect Fleming's Bond - from spy to lover back to spy - it's these two. Both are incredibly Bond-centric, cutting away from his pursuits only briefly (GF does this very well too BTW)... hard not to think of QOS as the revenge sequel Lazenby never got to be in. I had some pretty high hopes when Forster was announced as the director: they've totally been exceeded, just never thought I'd live to see the day a director captures Fleming's Bond, supporting characters, plotting, and storytelling so very very well. Yes, EON's Bond is mostly buried under all this Flemingness - and that ain't bad!

Thank you, Marc Forster. I doubt EON will go quite this Fleming with the next one, maybe never again even. But like OHMSS before it, we'll always have this wonderful and very grounded vision of Bond (on DVD, next March... or is it April?).

[ImTheMoneypenny]

Gee thanks!

At first viewing I was so taken with QOS it leapfrogged everything that had come before it. I've since placed OHMSS back on that top-most pedastel, but if any two films can say they reflect Fleming's Bond - from spy to lover back to spy - it's these two. Both are incredibly Bond-centric, cutting away from his pursuits only briefly (GF does this very well too BTW)... hard not to think of QOS as the revenge sequel Lazenby never got to be in. I had some pretty high hopes when Forster was announced as the director: they've totally been exceeded, just never thought I'd live to see the day a director captures Fleming's Bond, supporting characters, plotting, and storytelling so very very well. Yes, EON's Bond is mostly buried under all this Flemingness - and that ain't bad!

Thank you, Marc Forster. I doubt EON will go quite this Fleming with the next one, maybe never again even. But like OHMSS before it, we'll always have this wonderful and very grounded vision of Bond (on DVD, next March... or is it April?).

Well said again blueman. I've seen QOS 6 times so far and the shine has yet to dim on it for me. QOS is still perched alongside CR at the top of my list. Each time I see it I see more details and can take more of the bigger picture in as well, which is the sort of movie I enjoy. I do hope that this is a sign of things to come and that EON won't go backwards.

I think the dvd set for March. I am counting the days! They need to start a new counter on the front page here that gives us the countdown to the dvd!

[MRW007]

When I saw Quantum of Solace the day after its released. I was very excited. I really enjoyed Quantum of Solace ALOT. But i think that Casino Royale was better.

The action in Quantum of Solace was amazing. Daniel Craigs performance as Bond was fantastic. It's the story I thought to be just alittle off.

In the end, Quantum of Solace is a very nice addition to the two-part story being told between Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace.

On a side note: Daniel Craig IS James Bond. No one can do the role better than him. (that's my opinion)

[byline]

I wanted to paste a post from blueman which articulates a mantra which Cubby once had and that is (paraphrasing) "The audience should never be 'ahead' of Bond."

In the following post, blueman compares Q0S to most of the Fleming Bonds (save FRWL).

But in QOS we're only introduced to characters/storylines after Bond is: we meet Camille for the first time when Bond does, and only get a glimpse of Greene and Medrano when Camille leads Bond (and us) to them. This Bond-first narrative structure stays with QOS all the way to the end (we're only privvy to Medrano and Greene's confrontation in La Perla becuase Bond and Camille are outside getting ready to attack - indeed, Forster intercuts Camille infiltrating the hotel during this bit of bad guy business). This is incredibly expert writing/directing IMO, the best Fleming novels followed this IIRC (I think FRWL might be the only significant break with this...

...but if I have a preference it's with QOS's sleeker and more Bond-centric storytelling...

I liked the post so I thought i'd add it here.

One more reason why I think Q0S is one of the best, if not *the* best, Bond films yet.

Exactly. This is one of the things both my husband and I love about this film, is that we're experiencing things at the exact time Bond does. Little to no foreshadowing; we're in the moment right along with him, learning things, evaluating and re-evaluating, deciding, reacting, just as he does. There's not much that we know ahead of time. The only example I can think of is seeing the knife blade right before Slate attacks Bond . . . and that's only seconds before.

[HildebrandRarity]

Exactly. This is one of the things both my husband and I love about this film, is that we're experiencing things at the exact time Bond does. Little to no foreshadowing; we're in the moment right along with him, learning things, evaluating and re-evaluating, deciding, reacting, just as he does. There's not much that we know ahead of time. The only example I can think of is seeing the knife blade right before Slate attacks Bond . . . and that's only seconds before.

I think some Bonds fans were caught out with this style of story-telling especially given that the movie moves like a bullet. It's blisteringly quick and things happen at breakneck pace...so if you don't pay full attention, you risk getting left behind.

The post I pasted by blueman mentions that this type of story telling is very 'expert' and I concur. I do very much like the idea of finding out what Quantum might be up to only when Bond starts to listen in. Same with finding out that he screwed up by inadvertently sending the man from Special Branch to his death. Same with a lot of other things: We discover Field's death/body only when Bond does. Same with Mathis in the trunk of the SUV. Same with the sinkhole water resevoir discovery.

There are a couple of other posts from other threads i'd like to add here when I get some time. One of them is by 'mattofsteel' as he delves into Bond's evolving character 'arc' in Quantum - something which the first 20 Bond films did not have the opportunity to explore to the same extent, if at all.

[Hitch]

I've seen QOS once and can't wait to study it on DVD. It feels like a big slab of Dundee Cake that's going to take some digesting. Being too lazy to review it properly (I wibbled about the PTS somewhere else at CBn), I'll stick to one aspect of QOS, if I may, one that's been touched on in this thread:

Fleming's Bond enjoyed a drink, used it as armour (Ithangyew) against his violent experiences and emotions, and took it to such extremes that he was sent to a health farm (TB) and later took refuge in it after Tracy's death (YOLT). As noted, he seems to drink an awful lot more in the cinematic QOS than he did in Casino Royale. Now, if EON are going to keep giving us this Flemingesque Bond, might we see a similar arc in the next film, where it becomes more obvious that 007 is necking it so as to, paradoxically, keep on an even keel?

One of my favourite scenes was the airplane conversation between Bond and Mathis. It took a few seconds for the light to dawn: Bond was pissed! Has this happened in the franchise before? Craig impressed me very much in this scene - acting realistically drunk can be tricky (I can do the real thing effortlessly), yet he had the drunkard's stillness. And there was 007, drunk, suspended between two worlds, refusing to quite open up to his friends's gentle advice. I loved this naturalistic scene, where Bond is almost literally drinking in his Vesper, the taste of her, because at that moment nothing else will give him solace. It might be only the third time in all 22 films, apart from the final scene in OHMSS and Vesper's death in CR, where Bond has genuinely lost control of himself. He is off duty and trying but failing to heal. He's more real than ever - he's no superman, though beautifully dressed, naturally (remember Vesper choosing his tuxedo?), and his conversation with Mathis is thus a very rare look into Bond's heart and mind.

Extra kudos to QOS for Mathis correcting the barman's pronunciation of Kina Lillet!

(I hope I've remembered all this correctly or I shall look an even bigger fool than usual.)

One other thing: whether you think CR & QOS are good, bad or indifferent, whether you think one is better than the other, whether you think QOS is a disastrous departure - isn't it refreshing that EON have tried something different and given us a couple of films to mull over?

And I didn't even mention Branson's bleedin' Virgin.

[Hitch]

Hitch is James Bond 007 in Threadkiller.

Was it something I said?

[Scrambled Eggs]

Hitch is James Bond 007 in Threadkiller.

So Meester Bond, you think you will have the final word in this thread?

Wrong!

[Hitch]

*hooks dead thread to lightning-powered generator*

On further reflection, seeing as I'm itching to see QoS on DVD because I had trouble digesting the (intriguing) film at the cinema, might we call Quantum of Solace the first straight-to-DVD Bond film?

[HildebrandRarity]

I'd say they'd want to wait to go straight-to-dvd right after it becomes the most successful Bond film in the series since 1967 inspite of an impeding world-wide economic depression...but, given that they had academy dvd's sent out for oscar "consideration", it looks like it's already been out "straigt-to-dvd"...and making money regardless of illegal internet leaks.

Fact 1:

It's making more money than CR in the US. After 39 days (22-Dec-08) Q0S is at $161.7 Million and counting in comparison to CR's $148.9 Million after it's 39th day (Christmas Day, '06).

Fact 2:

It's running ahead of CR Internationally in terms of ticket sales - with Japan still to come - inspite of it being leaked on the internet.

Further, in a poll of CBners, approximately 75 percent of members gave Q0S either a 10, 9, 8 or 7 out of 10 with the median being somewhere around 8.3 from 10...and some of them/us are still going to the theatre to experience its hard-hitting and beautifully-filmed thrill ride on the big screen and in digital surround.

[HildebrandRarity]

I COULD SWEAR THEY'VE ADDED RUNNING TIME TO THE MOVIE SINCE OPENING WEEKEND!

I saw Q0S again this past Christmas day. It was my first viewing since Tuesday, November 18th and I'm certain they've added a few seconds here and a few seconds there.

Example 1:

I think the parachute opens well in time and I could swear this time they hit the ground after at least a second after the chute has fully popped open...as opposed to the instantaneous thud to the ground from opening weekend. I HEARD GASPS FROM THE AUDIENCE, as opposed to nothing the first few viewings during opening week!

Example 2: There is an extra line of dialogue when Bond is having white wine at Mathis' villa. You even see a vintage white car (either Mathis' or Gemma's) at the side of the villa before Bond knocks on the door.

Example 3: You can clearly see that the reason why the black fighter jet loses control and veers off into the side of the mountain is because Bond suddenly interrupts the "slipstream" (or "tow" or comfort zone of airflow) the fighter is getting while it's just behind (and almost under) the DC3's belly. You can see Bond jinking violently away to the left with his controls thus suddenly taking the DC3's slipstream away from the fighter.

Lastly, I think I saw something new as to why the second zodiac flips over Bond's boat to end the chase at Port Au Prince, but I have a holdiay visit to go to and will come back and report what that something new is.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'd say you've just gotten used to the flow of the film and have caught more on subsequent viewings; the same happened to me with The Dark Knight...

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

in a poll of CBners, approximately 75 percent of members gave Q0S either a 10, 9, 8 or 7 out of 10 with the median being somewhere around 8.3 from 10...and some of them/us are still going to the theatre to experience its hard-hitting and beautifully-filmed thrill ride on the big screen and in digital surround.

I don't want to be crucify by some QOS fans, for saying this, but outside this forum, this Forster's work doesn't have such a big impact. A good glimpse of this is the imdb.com rating (you can say whatever you want about that site, but its ranking is undoubtedly a proper reflection of popularity-maybe not that much about quality, but that's always a more subjective matter-), there QOS has a 7.0 whereas CR has 8.0, GF 7.9, FRWL 7.5, DN 7.3, and TSWLM & GE 7.1. And you have to take to account that ratings usually drops after around one year since the premiere.


I'm not saying that it is a failure (it definitely has good numbers in the Box Office), but itsn't that popular, as many seems to believe here.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 27 December 2008 - 10:51 PM.

[Colonel Moon]

QoS is not the best bond film, i watched it three times but was bored in my second and third viewing, even if it is only 1:46.

CR is 2:24 and i was never bored

[HildebrandRarity]

QoS is not the best bond film, i watched it three times but was bored in my second and third viewing, even if it is only 1:46.

CR is 2:24 and i was never bored

If you were bored the second time, what prompted you to see it the third time? It's a sincere question...there must have been something about it that prompted you to pay and see it again?

Also, in your opinion, what is the best Bond film and what makes it so?

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

QoS is not the best bond film, i watched it three times but was bored in my second and third viewing, even if it is only 1:46.

CR is 2:24 and i was never bored

If you were bored the second time, what prompted you to see it the third time? It's a sincere question...there must have been something about it that prompted you to pay and see it again?

Also, in your opinion, what is the best Bond film and what makes it so?

I can't speak directly from Colonel Moon, but I think it could be, because he's a Bond fan after all, hence he wanted to give a second (and a third) chance to QOS. Just like I've forced myself to see it again the Brosnan era movies, without any improvement in my praise (or lack of it) for them.

[Colonel Moon]

QoS is not the best bond film, i watched it three times but was bored in my second and third viewing, even if it is only 1:46.

CR is 2:24 and i was never bored

If you were bored the second time, what prompted you to see it the third time? It's a sincere question...there must have been something about it that prompted you to pay and see it again?

Also, in your opinion, what is the best Bond film and what makes it so?

i wanted to give another chance

I like all Bond movies, every movie have something that i like.

I like even QoS, but hate the editing, when i watched it first time i though that music in the scene when Bond following Q member in opera was nice fit, but second and third time i think it would be better without music, sometimes less music is better. Then we have parachute jump, a little faster opening would help. Next thing to much talking about Vesper, i know he loved her, but he is secret agent, he need to know how to control himself.

I dont rate movies as best or not best, i think about them like what is the most rewatchable movie.

I like Pierce he is my Bond, i grew up on him, but only one movie i can watch again is TWINE.
Sean Connery: most rewatchable movies according to me FRWL, DAF and TB
George Lazenby: only one movie but i watch it only near Christmas:)
Timothy Dalton: LTK, when i was younger TLD
and now
Roger Moore: LALD, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK (now every one kill me:)

So sir Roger Moore wins in my category of the most rewatchable movies


And sory for my english

[HildebrandRarity]

No need to apologise for your English, Colonel Moon.

We're all James Bond fans here...I don't want to speak for anyone else here but we understand what you're saying.

...Then we have parachute jump, a little faster opening would help.

As I said in my re-post, I really think they have a new cut of the movie out since mid November.

They added an extra second which makes the parachute open earlier before Bond and Camille hit the dried up river bed. Before it was almost a quazi~continuous near-crash...now the parachute fully "pops" open, then a second passes, then a "thud" to the river bed.

It's not unusual that they sent out a newer cut. They did it with Die Another Day when they cleaned up the hovercraft fight between Bond and Colonel Moon in the Pre Titles.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Well, when would they have done it? I saw QOS on the Saturday after its American premiere, then saw it again two weeks later; could it have been sent out between that time?

[HildebrandRarity]

Well, when would they have done it? I saw QOS on the Saturday after its American premiere, then saw it again two weeks later; could it have been sent out between that time?

It could have been sent anytime. There was a five-plus week gap between my previous viewing and Christmas day viewing. Remember, Q0S isn't over. There's the dvd/blu-ray launch coming in the new year.

Many Bond films have had more than just one cut over the years. Thunderball and OHMSS, for example, immediately come to mind.

There's even a very good probability that Q0S was a work in progress between the critics/reviewer screening and the London Premiere...that the editing was being "tweaked" during that time...and then even in between the Royal Premiere and North America, and even after that.

TWINE, for example, even had a Japanese band do the title song, replacing the one by Garbage.

I suggest you go see it again. You'll note that the parachute opening sequence is slightly different. Different enough to be noticable.

I don't think i'm imagining this. I might be, but I highly doubt it.

Even the climax of the boat pursuit has one added scene which adds insight as to why the zodiac flips over Bond's boat.

[00Twelve]

Even the climax of the boat pursuit has one added scene which adds insight as to why the zodiac flips over Bond's boat.

Which is...?