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What would you change about "Quantum of Solace"?


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#61 sharpshooter

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:44 AM

Remove the free fall. I can take the dogfight - but I'm not sure if the free fall is suitable for a Craig film. I'd rather his films be firmly grounded. It was handled good enough, though.

#62 crheath

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:15 AM

Remove the free fall. I can take the dogfight - but I'm not sure if the free fall is suitable for a Craig film. I'd rather his films be firmly grounded. It was handled good enough, though.


I agree. Get rid of the free fall scene. The other thing is pull the camera back and stop cutting every .0000001th of a second.

#63 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:00 AM

Martin Campbell directing and Stuart Baird editing.


Exactly, enough said. That's all what this film needed, to avoid that unwatchable action scenes.

#64 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:59 AM

Where to begin?

1. Put the gunbarrel at the beginning, have Craig walking slower and remaining in place after firing.

2. Have less tight framing and super quick cutting and no shaky cam, all of which make it really difficult to see and take in what is going on on-screen. We came to watch a movie, not miss three things that happened in less than a second because we had the nerve to blink at an inopportune time or having to spend time trying to figure out what exactly we just saw because the camera was too tight on the actor/action.

3. Lengthen the car chase. When I saw a clip of it on Jimmy Kimmel, it gave me the impression that this could be a truly fantastic car chase on the level of Bullitt, The French Connection, and Ronin. Instead, it's little more than the clip and not nearly as exciting as the clip and the press reports had us believe. (Personally, I think all the accidents that happened during the shoot, shortened/cut the filming of the scene.) :) Also, I think they should have started the chase just as Bond is leaving White's place, although I would keep the part about revealing White being in the trunk until after it's all over.

4. Have Daniel Kleinmann do the main titles. He is great at it (for Bond, anyway) and MK12 is not.

5. Flesh out the Elvis character more and give him something to do like kicking someone's :(. He looks good but does absolutely nothing. Shoot, Kratt was better than Elvis and he did next to nothing as well. I would also keep Elvis' hairstyle but would make it his own and not a wig.

6. Have Mathis live. He is one of Bond's three best friends (along with Tanner and Leiter) and doesn't die in the novels so I wouldn't have him die here. I would have him be captured and taken to Perla de las Dunas for beatings and interrogation and then have Bond rescue him--something he was unable to do for Vesper and Fields and whereby he could gain a quantum of solace for coming through for his good friend.

7. In the freefall scene, after they pull the ripcord, I would show the parachute opening and Bond and Camille falling for a couple of seconds longer under a fully opened chute before hitting the ground. As it stands now, as soon as they open the chute, they hit the ground and survive, which is impossible from what is edited.

8. Include the line: "Bond, James Bond."

9. Include a variation of the James Bond Theme for one of the action scenes' music.

10. Have Bond bed Camille, or at least show them entering a hotel together toward the end, giving people the opportunity to read into whether or not they will be sleeping together. Hell, we had to read into so many other things in the film, so why not this? (Sorry, I can't help it. I want Bond to bed all the main Bond girls and many of the secondary ones too.) :)

That's it for now, but give me time, I'm sure I'll have more.

#65 coco1997

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:38 AM

Where to begin?

1. Put the gunbarrel at the beginning, have Craig walking slower and remaining in place after firing.

2. Have less tight framing and super quick cutting and no shaky cam, all of which make it really difficult to see and take in what is going on on-screen. We came to watch a movie, not miss three things that happened in less than a second because we had the nerve to blink at an inopportune time or having to spend time trying to figure out what exactly we just saw because the camera was too tight on the actor/action.

3. Lengthen the car chase. When I saw a clip of it on Jimmy Kimmel, it gave me the impression that this could be a truly fantastic car chase on the level of Bullitt, The French Connection, and Ronin. Instead, it's little more than the clip and not nearly as exciting as the clip and the press reports had us believe. (Personally, I think all the accidents that happened during the shoot, shortened/cut the filming of the scene.) :) Also, I think they should have started the chase just as Bond is leaving White's place, although I would keep the part about revealing White being in the trunk until after it's all over.

4. Have Daniel Kleinmann do the main titles. He is great at it (for Bond, anyway) and MK12 is not.

5. Flesh out the Elvis character more and give him something to do like kicking someone's :(. He looks good but does absolutely nothing. Shoot, Kratt was better than Elvis and he did next to nothing as well. I would also keep Elvis' hairstyle but would make it his own and not a wig.

6. Have Mathis live. He is one of Bond's three best friends (along with Tanner and Leiter) and doesn't die in the novels so I wouldn't have him die here. I would have him be captured and taken to Perla de las Dunas for beatings and interrogation and then have Bond rescue him--something he was unable to do for Vesper and Fields and whereby he could gain a quantum of solace for coming through for his good friend.

7. In the freefall scene, after they pull the ripcord, I would show the parachute opening and Bond and Camille falling for a couple of seconds longer under a fully opened chute before hitting the ground. As it stands now, as soon as they open the chute, they hit the ground and survive, which is impossible from what is edited.

8. Include the line: "Bond, James Bond."

9. Include a variation of the James Bond Theme for one of the action scenes' music.

10. Have Bond bed Camille, or at least show them entering a hotel together toward the end, giving people the opportunity to read into whether or not they will be sleeping together. Hell, we had to read into so many other things in the film, so why not this? (Sorry, I can't help it. I want Bond to bed all the main Bond girls and many of the secondary ones too.) :)

That's it for now, but give me time, I'm sure I'll have more.

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more on many of these points. For one, it seems like you want to go back to the old way of doing things with many of your points.

-First off: the gunbarrel was an awesome way to close the film, and I can't see how they'd work it back into the opening, especially considering how Arnold's music plays over the Columbia placard segueing into the opening shot.

-Secondly, it was important to have Mathis die as it 1) made M doubt Bond's sanity and allegiance even further, and 2) made for one of the most emotional sequences in the film.

-Having Bond say the line would diminish its use as the very last line in "Casino Royale," which was probably the most effective use of the line in the entire series.

-The Bond theme does appear in one of the action scenes. Pay attention during the boat chase and you'll hear a variation on it twice. It's not blaring and in your face, but it's better that it's not that way.

-There's absolutely no reason for Bond to bed Camille. That's what Fields' role was for. It seems in this way that you wanted "QoS" to go back to the old way of doing things in which Bond beds every piece of tail he comes across (and I respectfully recognize that Camille is much more than just a "piece of tail"). Fields was the obligatory sacrificial lamb who dies after Bond sleeps with her. Coming off of Vesper, it'd be thoughtless and repetitive to have Bond develop strong feelings for another woman (Camille) and then bed her in the end. I believe Bond developed a deep respect for Camille (the only Bond girl who truly is 007's equal, in my opinion; and to think, how many times have they been touting the modern Bond girls in this way?) and that is why there was no sexual relationship between the two.

#66 Harmsway

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:41 AM

-First off: the gunbarrel was an awesome way to close the film, and I can't see how they'd work it back into the opening, especially considering how Arnold's music plays over the Columbia placard segueing into the opening shot.

Well, I suppose you could have an eerily silent gunbarrel, the only sound being footsteps and the gunshot, with Arnold's music slowly building in the background. Come to think of it, I think that would have been a pretty neat way to set the tone.

#67 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:41 AM

Where to begin?

1. Put the gunbarrel at the beginning, have Craig walking slower and remaining in place after firing.

6. Have Mathis live. He is one of Bond's three best friends (along with Tanner and Leiter) and doesn't die in the novels so I wouldn't have him die here. I would have him be captured and taken to Perla de las Dunas for beatings and interrogation and then have Bond rescue him--something he was unable to do for Vesper and Fields and whereby he could gain a quantum of solace for coming through for his good friend.

8. Include the line: "Bond, James Bond."

9. Include a variation of the James Bond Theme for one of the action scenes' music.

10. Have Bond bed Camille, or at least show them entering a hotel together toward the end, giving people the opportunity to read into whether or not they will be sleeping together. Hell, we had to read into so many other things in the film, so why not this? (Sorry, I can't help it. I want Bond to bed all the main Bond girls and many of the secondary ones too.) :)

That's it for now, but give me time, I'm sure I'll have more.

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more on many of these points. For one, it seems like you want to go back to the old way of doing things with many of your points.

-First off: the gunbarrel was an awesome way to close the film, and I can't see how they'd work it back into the opening, especially considering how Arnold's music plays over the Columbia placard segueing into the opening shot.

-Secondly, it was important to have Mathis die as it 1) made M doubt Bond's sanity and allegiance even further, and 2) made for one of the most emotional sequences in the film.

-Having Bond say the line would diminish its use as the very last line in "Casino Royale," which was probably the most effective use of the line in the entire series.

-The Bond theme does appear in one of the action scenes. Pay attention during the boat chase and you'll hear a variation on it twice. It's not blaring and in your face, but it's better that it's not that way.

-There's absolutely no reason for Bond to bed Camille. That's what Fields' role was for. It seems in this way that you wanted "QoS" to go back to the old way of doing things in which Bond beds every piece of tail he comes across (and I respectfully recognize that Camille is much more than just a "piece of tail"). Fields was the obligatory sacrificial lamb who dies after Bond sleeps with her. Coming off of Vesper, it'd be thoughtless and repetitive to have Bond develop strong feelings for another woman (Camille) and then bed her in the end. I believe Bond developed a deep respect for Camille (the only Bond girl who truly is 007's equal, in my opinion; and to think, how many times have they been touting the modern Bond girls in this way?) and that is why there was no sexual relationship between the two.

To rebut your points:

1. I thoroughly dislike the gunbarrel at the end so would obviously prefer it in its rightful place at the beginning. As for Arnold's music coming over the Columbia logo, that's no problem. Just do what's been done successfully 20 other times. Do the gunbarrel and its music and when the dot fills the screen immediately jump into Arnold's car chase music. Simple. :)

2. I absolutely hate that Mathis dies. I'm a big Mathis fan and believe he should have lived. As for M doubting Bond's sanity, she already does when he tosses the Special Branch guy off the roof. There's no need for the added doubt by having Mathis die. Besides, why would Bond kill Mathis? He has no motive whatsoever as Mathis was proven innocent in the Casino Royale affair. For all MI6's information on Bond activities leading up to M's talk with him in his Bolivian hotel room, surely they would have learned from the hotel staff and others that Mathis and Bond were friendly with each other and bore no animosity whatsoever. As a result, I don't think the idea of Bond supposedly going suddenly insane and killing Mathis works. I also didn't buy the circumstances of Mathis' death or the emotional impact of it. It seemed sappy and was unconvincing to me. It seemed like just an excuse to have another close friend die in his arms, say some "meaningful" words, and show Bond's hardness by callously tossing Mathis in the trash (a very undignified send off of a great character) :( --something the novel or previous movie Bonds would never have done.

3. I don't understand this line of thinking from you or others. Saying a line in one movie diminishes the same or similar line used in another? Why? If it was said twice in the same film, I can understand, but they're two different movies. It shouldn't impact either one in the least. By this line of thinking, "Bond, James Bond" should never be said in another Bond film again because it will take away from Casino Royale's version. CR's version doesn't take away from any of its predecessors, so why should its successors be any different? It's Bond's trademark line. Why shouldn't he say it once a film?

4. Regarding the James Bond Theme, yes I know it was played sparingly in places, but I was talking about wanting a full version a la Ice Chase from The Living Daylights. We didn't get a full blown version in Casino Royale because Bond wasn't "Bond". But at the end of that film, he became "Bond" so why didn't we get a fuller version in QOS? I just miss it--and no, the end credits do not count. It's not quite the same as hearing it over a cool Bondian moment.

5. With the bedding of Camille bit, I was slightly joking. I know there's not a big reason to do so other than I would like them to--hey, it's a Bond film. ;) But they did kiss in the car so there was some attraction there. Why couldn't they have sex as a kind of cathartic release after escaping the near death experiences they'd just had following their successful personal missions? It wouldn't be any more/less lustful than the sex with Fields. In fact, now that I think about it, I would have bought Bond's liaison more with Camille than Fields. He meets Fields in the afternoon and has sex with her in the evening just to kill time? There wasn't any relationship or sparks developed between the two that would suggest a sexual encounter. One moment Bond's inspecting the room and the next they are in bed together with no preamble. Even Roger Moore wasn't that quick. Bond and Camille on the other hand, I can clearly see having a brief roll in the hay. They certainly had more going on between them than he and Fields. And as I said, we had to read into quite a bit in QOS, so why couldn't they show Bond and Camille entering a hotel together to stay the night before going their separate ways and allow us the opportunity to read into whether or not they had a sexual encounter?

#68 The Commader

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:47 AM

Have him going after Vespers boyfriend for longer in the film.

Use the eye at the opera for the gun barrel scene, as he walks across the stage turns and shoots a member of Quantum.

Bond, James Bond.

Longer car chase.

Mathis lives.

#69 shadytreewejustdoredyouract

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:24 PM

I'd certainly have moved the Bond/Yusef scene to somewhere other than Jason Bourne's old stamping ground of Moscow. Putting it in, say, Bombay, Shanghai or Tokyo (or Islamabad, Seoul or Taipei - and there are, of course, plenty of other choices) would have given 007 the chance to visit new territory (or at least territory he hadn't been to in a while, and more importantly a location that was not used so strikingly in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY)

,
Agreed on that one, Loomis.

I'd also have lost the boat chase and dogfight/freefall, to make the film even pacier (I've only found Harmsway agreeing with me on this so far, but I think that, far from being too short, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is actually a tad overlong). I found neither sequence particularly exciting to watch, and the dogfight/freefall is especially Brosnanesque/Moore-ish and inappropriate and jarring for what is otherwise a suitably gritty and down-to-earth Craigian outing.

I wouldn't have cut it, but I would have perhaps shortened it by about forty seconds or so. It went on a tad too long, I'd say.

I'd also have junked the silly quip Bond makes before shooting someone through a vehicle windscreen - again, another jarringly daft bit.

"You and I have a mutual friend" is the quote you're referring to. Yes, I felt the same way. It sounded forced and just thrown in there.


I didn't think it was a quip. It was him avenging a good friend's murder and letting the perpetrator know about it. The quip that I thought felt a bit forced was the 'She's seasick'. It was like Connery's 'She's just dead' but delivered too self consciously. DC's best quipping comes from genuine character points like when he says Vesper's not his type - "Single."

#70 staveoffzombies

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 09:38 AM

Not too much I would change, but there are a couple things.

1. The pre-title sequence did make it too hard to discern what was happening; thankfully the rest of the film wasn't as bad.

2. The title seqeunce. I've grown to actually like the song somewhat, and probably wouldn't change it; but the graphics and such just didn't grab me at all. I understand the sand and desert motif, but the rest of it looked like a planetarium or something.

3. Leiter. To me it almost felt like he was an afterthought, and throughout half the film he just sat their scowling like he was smelling something foul....I felt like his character was shoehorned in at points.

#71 stamper

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 10:40 AM

- Make Yousef scene the pre-credit of the movie

- Put the gunbarrel after the gallery fight when 007 shoots Mitchell

- Kill Camille in the hands of Greene

- Finish with Bond resigning from the secret service

- Set up a sequel where Quantum targets 007 as a pawn in a deadly political game, FRWL like.

#72 Zorin Industries

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:15 AM

- Make Yousef scene the pre-credit of the movie

- Put the gunbarrel after the gallery fight when 007 shoots Mitchell

- Kill Camille in the hands of Greene

- Finish with Bond resigning from the secret service

- Set up a sequel where Quantum targets 007 as a pawn in a deadly political game, FRWL like.


I thought the YUSUF angle had been cleared up for you on another thread, Stamper? Bond is looking for YUSUF throughout SOLACE.

And why would Bond resign from MI6 yet again?

Like most of your thoughts on Bond, I am so lost I don't think even defending an opinion makes a difference so I'm going to stop trying.

#73 stamper

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:51 AM

Ah it's hard on the web, but admit it, if we gather together in an english pub, by the time we will have finished discussing QOS, the bill will run in excess of four zeros, and someone will have to bring us back home in a cab. :(
I still stick to Bond looking for White, who mysteriously isn't seen past the Opera scenes.

#74 the doctor

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:01 PM

Nothing. well maybe id keep the full version of the title song. cutting out that lead guitar in the bridge annoyed me.

as much as the editing is all over the place its not bad per say IMO. actually reminded me alot of the editing in 'Taken'.

#75 MkB

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:06 PM

I would:

- film a tad differently the action sequences in the beginning of the movie (it displeases so many people that there's no point in keeping them like that, and although they were not a major problem for me, I wasn't overwhelmed by this editing)

- maybe add some more seduction or at least alchemy between Bond and Fields; their encounter is a little bit like:
"Hello, I'm Agent Fields, a hot office clerk in sexy overcoat and boots!"
"Hello, I'm James Bond, a hot field agent in a £3000 Tom Ford suit who fancies stationery. Wanna :(?"
"Yeah, cool!"
Realistic approach, hmmmm? :)

- do something about the dogfight / freefall sequence; particularly the freefall sequence, which is over-the-top IMO

- change some elements in the final scene with Mathis; the "codename" line, for instance, doens't make much sense and opens the door to weird interpretations; I'd rather have Bond using Mathis's body to set up a crime scene where the police would suppose Mathis and the cops had shot each others, instead of dumping his body. It would be just as cold, but would make more sense.

#76 Paul Scrabo

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 02:44 PM

I ceratinly agree that Mathis should have lived.
The entire approach, philosophy, etc of QOS does not work for me.
No matter what actor,decade, etc, at least a Bond film meant class and style. Until this one, sorry.
I'm unhappy that EON sell out with the approach of this continuing story trilogy stuff , when I thought the story was told.
James...GET OVER IT!!! And QOS is not even a full film....it does not satisfy me. All I want is "another Bond adventure....and this time it's NOT personal!"
Realism be damned...what was neat about Bond films were the imaginative deaths, the bizarre things, not just blowing people away. Has Austin Powers crippled this franchise so much that they are afraid to get even close to being witty or clever?The power of a "Bond Film" was not being concerned with Bond s angst...it was observing the strange and incredible through Bond's eyes and outlook. QOS is not Bond 22 - it is a sequel to their hit Casino Royale, Fine, but will they please stop with the longest cliched "character arc" in history..(!)
And how could they botch every action sequence? And I could not pick up on some of the dialogue! (many reviewers have mentioned this, so it can't be my imagination) And so many things were not made clear! (I don't see that as ambigous..I see that as sloppy screenwriting)
So, there are so many thing I would change...sorry for going on. All of us have Bond as an important part of their lives, and if you loved QOS, I am happy for you. Please know that I really went in wanting to like it. But as strange as it sounds, at times it played like a bad Charles Bronson film, and Craig was getting a bit boring to watch. It's not his fault.
(and it was not Moore's or Dalton's or Brosnan's fault.....it's the SCRIPT)
It's as if Barbara B. felt that "My dad made films. James Bond, I think, and I think he was unhappy that they were not taken seriously as art, so damn it, we are going to buy some art. Get the the rolodex. Marc Forster....perfect!"
What she may not understand is that the 'art' was throughout those early films - good or bad, they had a look.They want to re-invent, but what we have is a "western without horses", a Bond film without Bond. I'm open, but you have to give me something that's better than your parents did. It's so schizo...almost as if being alternatively proud and ashamed of a legacy.
I just prefer my Bonds to at least being TRYING to have a good time, and kill only when it was right to do so. I thought the early films had that. I hope we finally get there in whatever, maybe RISICO. (hey, do you think they will extend the O with "007" :(
Notice that from Goldeneye on, all Bond titles have 007 embedded in their film's logo.
Paul

Edited by Paul Scrabo, 20 November 2008 - 03:42 PM.


#77 Sigma7

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:48 PM

i would have the opening and then bond shooting himself in the head ( with shaky cameras and lightning fast editing) , then the credits roll up, THE END. Do you think guys with A.D.D would get it this time?

#78 Fiona Volpe lover

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:53 PM

I ceratinly agree that Mathis should have lived.
The entire approach, philosophy, etc of QOS does not work for me.
No matter what actor,decade, etc, at least a Bond film meant class and style. Until this one, sorry.
I'm unhappy that EON sell out with the approach of this continuing story trilogy stuff , when I thought the story was told.
James...GET OVER IT!!! And QOS is not even a full film....it does not satisfy me. All I want is "another Bond adventure....and this time it's NOT personal!"
Realism be damned...what was neat about Bond films were the imaginative deaths, the bizarre things, not just blowing people away. Has Austin Powers crippled this franchise so much that they are afraid to get even close to being witty or clever?The power of a "Bond Film" was not being concerned with Bond s angst...it was observing the strange and incredible through Bond's eyes and outlook. QOS is not Bond 22 - it is a sequel to their hit Casino Royale, Fine, but will they please stop with the longest cliched "character arc" in history..(!)
And how could they botch every action sequence? And I could not pick up on some of the dialogue! (many reviewers have mentioned this, so it can't be my imagination) And so many things were not made clear! (I don't see that as ambigous..I see that as sloppy screenwriting)
So, there are so many thing I would change...sorry for going on. All of us have Bond as an important part of their lives, and if you loved QOS, I am happy for you. Please know that I really went in wanting to like it. But as strange as it sounds, at times it played like a bad Charles Bronson film, and Craig was getting a bit boring to watch. It's not his fault.
(and it was not Moore's or Dalton's or Brosnan's fault.....it's the SCRIPT)
It's as if Barbara B. felt that "My dad made films. James Bond, I think, and I think he was unhappy that they were not taken seriously as art, so damn it, we are going to buy some art. Get the the rolodex. Marc Forster....perfect!"
What she may not understand is that the 'art' was throughout those early films - good or bad, they had a look.They want to re-invent, but what we have is a "western without horses", a Bond film without Bond. I'm open, but you have to give me something that's better than your parents did. It's so schizo...almost as if being alternatively proud and ashamed of a legacy.
I just prefer my Bonds to at least being TRYING to have a good time, and kill only when it was right to do so. I thought the early films had that. I hope we finally get there in whatever, maybe RISICO. (hey, do you think they will extend the O with "007" :(
Notice that from Goldeneye on, all Bond titles have 007 embedded in their film's logo.
Paul


I agree with you 100%! Very well put.

#79 Paul Scrabo

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:32 PM

Thanks Fiona. I appreciate the CNB giving us all a place to either rant or praise.
And for the record, I DID like the casting and the performances and that is not a minor thing. And I had no problem with the villain or his scheme.
But Elvis didn't do much did he? :( Though he was interesting!
And what was the bit with that poor girl with the ambulance, or did I just imagine that?
And I hope the hotel waitress got away!
best,
Paul

#80 Qbranchtech

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:27 AM

1. Definitely better editing

2. Have Mathis explains what is QoS as everybody has mentioned and save the "Why did you come with me" discussion from Bond on the plane to after being rescued from the back of the Land Rover (Yes, he doesn't die there, yet)

3. Have Mathis die at the Eco-hotel instead. Yes, Bond only killed 2 Panamanian police offices after the party to safe Mathis. Mathis would kill his betrayed police chief "friend" at the eco-hotel only to be shot by Elvis, hence set up a duel between Bond and Elvis. Afterwards, then we have the dying words of Mathis with only the "not hurting" and "forgive Vesper" portions only. Then we continue on with the fight with Greene as in the film. Mathis' body would have been blown up along with the hotel in the end to symbolized Bond's anger at Vesper got vaporized.

4. For Fields, I would have added a small scene before Mathis knock on the hotel suite door and move the "Angry at myself" dialogue there, followed by her asking Bond why he is in Bolivia. Have Bond starting to delve a little into the story of a woman she loved and why her love and betrayal mattered to him, only to be interrupted by Mathis' knocking at the door. Fields' innocence would have been the perfect vehicle for the audience to understand why Vesper mattered to him so much. To help the "lack of skin" critics, I would like to see this added exposition set against a hot oil rub on Fields' back by Bond in bed with nothing but a towel on her butt :( (Also to foreshadow her death by oil later)

5. Change the "I can't find the stationery" line to a seduction scene that ties back to the teacher on sabbatical cover...

#81 coco1997

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:30 AM

1. Definitely better editing

2. Have Mathis explains what is QoS as everybody has mentioned and save the "Why did you come with me" discussion from Bond on the plane to after being rescued from the back of the Land Rover (Yes, he doesn't die there, yet)

3. Have Mathis die at the Eco-hotel instead. Yes, Bond only killed 2 Panamanian police offices after the party to safe Mathis. Mathis would kill his betrayed police chief "friend" at the eco-hotel only to be shot by Elvis, hence set up a duel between Bond and Elvis. Afterwards, then we have the dying words of Mathis with only the "not hurting" and "forgive Vesper" portions only. Then we continue on with the fight with Greene as in the film. Mathis' body would have been blown up along with the hotel in the end to symbolized Bond's anger at Vesper got vaporized.

4. For Fields, I would have added a small scene before Mathis knock on the hotel suite door and move the "Angry at myself" dialogue there, followed by her asking Bond why he is in Bolivia. Have Bond starting to delve a little into the story of a woman she loved and why her love and betrayal mattered to him, only to be interrupted by Mathis' knocking at the door. Fields' innocence would have been the perfect vehicle for the audience to understand why Vesper mattered to him so much. To help the "lack of skin" critics, I would like to see this added exposition set against a hot oil rub on Fields' back by Bond in bed with nothing but a towel on her butt :( (Also to foreshadow her death by oil later)

5. Change the "I can't find the stationery" line to a seduction scene that ties back to the teacher on sabbatical cover...


Hmmm...those ideas are pretty interesting. Could you perhaps go into a little more detail about your ideas for 2 and 3?

#82 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:45 AM

1. Definitely better editing

2. Have Mathis explains what is QoS as everybody has mentioned and save the "Why did you come with me" discussion from Bond on the plane to after being rescued from the back of the Land Rover (Yes, he doesn't die there, yet)

3. Have Mathis die at the Eco-hotel instead. Yes, Bond only killed 2 Panamanian police offices after the party to safe Mathis. Mathis would kill his betrayed police chief "friend" at the eco-hotel only to be shot by Elvis, hence set up a duel between Bond and Elvis. Afterwards, then we have the dying words of Mathis with only the "not hurting" and "forgive Vesper" portions only. Then we continue on with the fight with Greene as in the film. Mathis' body would have been blown up along with the hotel in the end to symbolized Bond's anger at Vesper got vaporized.

4. For Fields, I would have added a small scene before Mathis knock on the hotel suite door and move the "Angry at myself" dialogue there, followed by her asking Bond why he is in Bolivia. Have Bond starting to delve a little into the story of a woman she loved and why her love and betrayal mattered to him, only to be interrupted by Mathis' knocking at the door. Fields' innocence would have been the perfect vehicle for the audience to understand why Vesper mattered to him so much. To help the "lack of skin" critics, I would like to see this added exposition set against a hot oil rub on Fields' back by Bond in bed with nothing but a towel on her butt :) (Also to foreshadow her death by oil later)

5. Change the "I can't find the stationery" line to a seduction scene that ties back to the teacher on sabbatical cover...

Those ideas are much better than the film's although I would still have Mathis live. :) Good job. :(

#83 Qbranchtech

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 08:08 AM

Hmmm...those ideas are pretty interesting. Could you perhaps go into a little more detail about your ideas for 2 and 3?


For 2 - I think that in the original layout Bond just ask Mathis to join him in Italy and only to ask him why he accepted in the plane moments later a bit redundant. However, if Mathis got beaten up by his "friend" the police chief and almost got killed, then it would be appropriate for Bond to ask a person who he has wrongfully accused and indirectly tortured before, why are you willing to go through all these trouble again for me? Then the conversation about Bond admitting to his mistakes carries more weight.

For 3 - I just felt sorry for Elvis getting blown up and not having a worthy showdown in the end. It would make sense for Mathis to killing his police chief "friend" for trying to kill him and it would have set up a great showdown between Bond and Elvis. Heck, for that I might even add a line for Elvis, "Your wife screams like a cat when we drown her in oil" or something like that just to piss Bond off. It would have helped to develope Elvis' character, too.

For 4 - I forgot to mention that it would have also tied back Bond's statement that Fields has shown true bravery as she was the only one dare to bring his motivation into question and focus while everybody just assumed that he is out for revenge for his lover.

#84 coco1997

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 08:15 AM

Hmmm...if you have Mathis live, how does he get to the Eco-Hotel at the end, then?

#85 Qbranchtech

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 02:42 PM

Hmmm...if you have Mathis live, how does he get to the Eco-Hotel at the end, then?


He would pretty much on the same track as Camille, meaning 2 chutes in the DC-3 instead of 1 (usually for 2, remember Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?). Three to walk across the desert. Mathis and Camille got stopped at the hotel lobby, etc. It would actually help explain how they can get back to town relatively easily because Mathis has his 7 years of South American experience.

#86 coco1997

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:00 PM

Good idea, Qbranchtech. Any ideas on how you'd improve the dogfight scene?

#87 Zorin Industries

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:04 PM

Hmmm...if you have Mathis live, how does he get to the Eco-Hotel at the end, then?


He would pretty much on the same track as Camille, meaning 2 chutes in the DC-3 instead of 1 (usually for 2, remember Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?). Three to walk across the desert. Mathis and Camille got stopped at the hotel lobby, etc. It would actually help explain how they can get back to town relatively easily because Mathis has his 7 years of South American experience.

If every detail in a film needs to be broken down to the lowest common denominator of explaination then yes.

#88 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 04:55 AM

Hmmm...if you have Mathis live, how does he get to the Eco-Hotel at the end, then?


He would pretty much on the same track as Camille, meaning 2 chutes in the DC-3 instead of 1 (usually for 2, remember Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?). Three to walk across the desert. Mathis and Camille got stopped at the hotel lobby, etc. It would actually help explain how they can get back to town relatively easily because Mathis has his 7 years of South American experience.

Or have Mathis captured and taken to the Perla de las Dunas Hotel to be sweated by Greene/Medrano for information on the mission and/or Bond.

#89 Qbranchtech

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 03:28 PM

Good idea, Qbranchtech. Any ideas on how you'd improve the dogfight scene?


I actually don't have much problem with the action stuff, just that the editing was way off base for a Bond film. I do think the sink hole was too shallow for the chute to work properly.

I actually have an idea that might address another group of complains - the lack of humor, no innuendoes and Bond not being shown as a well rounded educated person:

Have Bond guess Fields' first name at the party after the "Just Fields" line. I felt that Bond wouldn't give up so easily. They can show his efforts in between the other conversations like "My police force is at your disposal", before and after the speech and while keeping an eye on Greene to keep the atmosphere light. After 2 to 3 quick tries with Fields saying no and definitely not giving Bond a clue (more playful banter) as to what it is (her smirking), Bond made an excuse to get another drink and came back to give her a clinical description of a strawberry at first without naming it, then proceed to get more and more sensual in his descriptions (like how to enjoy a really good one) and the audience would unmistakeably know that he is talking about her in the context of a best of the best strawberry (red like your hair, soft like your skin, etc) - while still not saying the name out loud. Fields would be stunned, flattered and finally stop Bond to ask how does he know, and Bond would say, "Oh, I looked you up at work" and hold up his phone while not showing the screen. Then we see Camille upstairs at the party...

I just felt that overall the film was shot with 4th draft of the script when they should have shot with the 8th or 9th draft. I am sure they put in a lot of work in this and they are the professionals doing these stuff day in and day out. I guess the strike hurt them too. I just wish they could come up with something a little better...

#90 Zorin Industries

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 10:26 AM

- Make Yousef scene the pre-credit of the movie

- Put the gunbarrel after the gallery fight when 007 shoots Mitchell

- Kill Camille in the hands of Greene

- Finish with Bond resigning from the secret service

- Set up a sequel where Quantum targets 007 as a pawn in a deadly political game, FRWL like.

And that's why fans don't make James Bond films... because they would not make motivational sense, appease anoraks notions of finality, repeat existing films key motifs and state the bloody obvious.