178 replies to this topic

[coco1997]

Since "QoS" is now out for most of us, I'd like everyone to discuss what they would've done differently; recasting of roles, rewriting of scenes, relocating certain environments--Anything that you would have done had you been behind the helm of the film.

[Chula]

- put gunbarrel back where it should be
- run the entire pre-credit sequence the way it was supposed to (twenty or so minutes with the inclusion of the rooftop chase and scaffold fight)
- kept Strawberry Fields alive
- kept Greene alive (although I think he may still be) so he and QUANTUM can return. This film just scratched the surface with QUANTUM
- re-written the climax. It just didn't work at all. The first hour of this film I really liked. But the end was very, very unsatisfying.

[Loomis]

I'd certainly have moved the Bond/Yusef scene to somewhere other than Jason Bourne's old stamping ground of Moscow. Putting it in, say, Bombay, Shanghai or Tokyo (or Islamabad, Seoul or Taipei - and there are, of course, plenty of other choices) would have given 007 the chance to visit new territory (or at least territory he hadn't been to in a while, and more importantly a location that was not used so strikingly in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY), and would still have given Forster some cool-looking Chinese characters or "foreign" writing styles to play with.

I'd also have lost the boat chase and dogfight/freefall, to make the film even pacier (I've only found Harmsway agreeing with me on this so far, but I think that, far from being too short, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is actually a tad overlong). I found neither sequence particularly exciting to watch, and the dogfight/freefall is especially Brosnanesque/Moore-ish and inappropriate and jarring for what is otherwise a suitably gritty and down-to-earth Craigian outing. I'd also have junked the silly quip Bond makes before shooting someone through a vehicle windscreen - again, another jarringly daft bit.

Oh, and of course, Ian Brown would have done the theme song.

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

Since "QoS" is now out for most of us, I'd like everyone to discuss what they would've done differently; recasting of roles, rewriting of scenes, relocating certain environments--Anything that you would have done had you been behind the helm of the film.

For a start, the opening car chase is ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY. The film could have started with Bond delivering White at the safehouse and have had the rooftop chase as the PTS. At the end of CR, we see nobody else at White's villa. Where do these people came from? It'd have been more surprising for Mitchell to turn coat if we hadn't already established Bond having a lot of difficulty abducting White and those four minutes could have been used in advancing the plot forward.
Looking at the big picture, Eon should realise that action sequences should be well integrated into the plot of the film. I only felt that about Bond's fight with Slate, which is short an allows him to get into the story. Other action sequences in the film are interchangeable.

[coco1997]

I'd certainly have moved the Bond/Yusef scene to somewhere other than Jason Bourne's old stamping ground of Moscow. Putting it in, say, Bombay, Shanghai or Tokyo (or Islamabad, Seoul or Taipei - and there are, of course, plenty of other choices) would have given 007 the chance to visit new territory (or at least territory he hadn't been to in a while, and more importantly a location that was not used so strikingly in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY)

,
Agreed on that one, Loomis.

I'd also have lost the boat chase and dogfight/freefall, to make the film even pacier (I've only found Harmsway agreeing with me on this so far, but I think that, far from being too short, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is actually a tad overlong). I found neither sequence particularly exciting to watch, and the dogfight/freefall is especially Brosnanesque/Moore-ish and inappropriate and jarring for what is otherwise a suitably gritty and down-to-earth Craigian outing.

I wouldn't have cut it, but I would have perhaps shortened it by about forty seconds or so. It went on a tad too long, I'd say.

I'd also have junked the silly quip Bond makes before shooting someone through a vehicle windscreen - again, another jarringly daft bit.

"You and I have a mutual friend" is the quote you're referring to. Yes, I felt the same way. It sounded forced and just thrown in there.

[Harmsway]

I'd certainly have moved the Bond/Yusef scene to somewhere other than Jason Bourne's old stamping ground of Moscow. Putting it in, say, Bombay, Shanghai or Tokyo (or Islamabad, Seoul or Taipei - and there are, of course, plenty of other choices) would have given 007 the chance to visit new territory (or at least territory he hadn't been to in a while, and more importantly a location that was not used so strikingly in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY), and would still have given Forster some cool-looking Chinese characters or "foreign" writing styles to play with.

To be fair, the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE isn't in Moscow. It's somewhere else in Russia (the name starts with a "K"). But yeah, I do agree that they probably should have changed up the locale to somewhere else.

I'd also have lost the boat chase and dogfight/freefall, to make the film even pacier (I've only found Harmsway agreeing with me on this so far, but I think that, far from being too short, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is actually a tad overlong). I found neither sequence particularly exciting to watch, and the dogfight/freefall is especially Brosnanesque/Moore-ish and inappropriate and jarring for what is otherwise a suitably gritty and down-to-earth Craigian outing. I'd also have junked the silly quip Bond makes before shooting someone through a vehicle windscreen - again, another jarringly daft bit.

Quite so. Drop those things, and I think QUANTUM OF SOLACE would improve immensely.

For a start, the opening car chase is ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

Since when does a PTS have to be absolutely necessary? Some of the best aren't even connected to the story at all (see GOLDFINGER).

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

I'd certainly have moved the Bond/Yusef scene to somewhere other than Jason Bourne's old stamping ground of Moscow. Putting it in, say, Bombay, Shanghai or Tokyo (or Islamabad, Seoul or Taipei - and there are, of course, plenty of other choices) would have given 007 the chance to visit new territory (or at least territory he hadn't been to in a while, and more importantly a location that was not used so strikingly in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY), and would still have given Forster some cool-looking Chinese characters or "foreign" writing styles to play with.

To be fair, the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE isn't in Moscow. It's somewhere else in Russia (the name starts with a "K"). But yeah, I do agree that they probably should have changed up the locale to somewhere else.

I'd also have lost the boat chase and dogfight/freefall, to make the film even pacier (I've only found Harmsway agreeing with me on this so far, but I think that, far from being too short, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is actually a tad overlong). I found neither sequence particularly exciting to watch, and the dogfight/freefall is especially Brosnanesque/Moore-ish and inappropriate and jarring for what is otherwise a suitably gritty and down-to-earth Craigian outing. I'd also have junked the silly quip Bond makes before shooting someone through a vehicle windscreen - again, another jarringly daft bit.

Quite so. Drop those things, and I think QUANTUM OF SOLACE would improve immensely.

For a start, the opening car chase is ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

Since when does a PTS have to be absolutely necessary? Some of the best aren't even connected to the story at all (see GOLDFINGER).

Since the film is so short it isn't supposed to have any "fat".

[coco1997]

I didn't mind the PTS. Although one wonders how it might've looked had they used Ford GT's as they originally planned.

[Harmsway]

Since the film is so short it isn't supposed to have any "fat".

Says you. Even some of the Bond movies close to QUANTUM's running time, GOLDFINGER and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, have really unnecessary, brief pre-title sequences just there to entertain. If there's one place in a Bond where you can just have a bit of fun, it's in the pre-title sequence, even if you're trying to do a tightly-paced thriller with the rest of it.

[coco1997]

Would anyone change anything about the action sequences? I'm not referring so much to the idea of axing certain sequences, but rather, writing them differently so that they're more effective.

Edited by coco1997, 14 November 2008 - 08:11 PM.

[Mr_Wint]

Since the film is so short it isn't supposed to have any "fat".

Says you. Even some of the Bond movies close to QUANTUM's running time, GOLDFINGER and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, have really unnecessary, brief pre-title sequences just there to entertain. If there's one place in a Bond where you can just have a bit of fun, it's in the pre-title sequence, even if you're trying to do a tightly-paced thriller with the rest of it.

You should watch FRWL again. The chap who tries to kill fake-Bond actually comes back later and tries the same thing with the real Bond. Of all the PTS, FRWL is as far from "really unnecessary" as you can get

[trs007]

Martin Campbell directing and Stuart Baird editing.

[Harmsway]

One thing I certainly would change is the title sequence. I was expecting good things, and what I'd seen I'd liked, but MK12's title sequence is remarkably dull. The most dull since Binder's farewell title sequence on LICENCE TO KILL.

You should watch FRWL again. The chap who tries to kill fake-Bond actually comes back later and tries the same thing with the real Bond.

Sure. But as much as it's loosely connected to the story, it's not truly necessary, now is it? Indeed, it's more than a little silly - a fun little gimmick with which to kick off the film.

[Marquis]

Title track. As the two films go hand-in-hand, I think bringing Cornell back to do a second song (something slower & more melancholy than YKMN) would have been a masterstroke.

[coco1997]

Title track. As the two films go hand-in-hand, I think bringing Cornell back to do a second song (something slower & more melancholy than YKMN) would have been a masterstroke.

How about the track "Nobody Loves You" from the "QoS" video game? Many fans are insisting that this song is superior to the White/Keys track. I tend to agree; it's much catchier.

[Mr_Wint]

You should watch FRWL again. The chap who tries to kill fake-Bond actually comes back later and tries the same thing with the real Bond.

Sure. But as much as it's loosely connected to the story, it's not truly necessary, now is it? Indeed, it's more than a little silly - a fun little gimmick with which to kick off the film.

The fight at the train simply wouldn't be as effective if it hadn't been for the tension between the characters. The PTS is a part of that. We've already seen him kill "Bond" once. And you said that it was "really unnecessary".

[__7]

I confess I'm having difficulty with all of this. I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable Bond fan and I thought the film was every bit as good as CR and in parts brilliant. I'm disappointed that many of the old pros on these forums dislike the film so much. I literally found nothing wrong with the film, and I was prepared to find stuff because of some of the post headings I saw. I was disappointed with the song, but I'm thinking that will improve with multiple viewings. Is it possible to be too knowledgeable as a Bond fan? Can we get to the point where we think we know more than Babs and MGW, even Fleming? Just some thoughts.

[coco1997]

I confess I'm having difficulty with all of this. I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable Bond fan and I thought the film was every bit as good as CR and in parts brilliant. I'm disappointed that many of the old pros on these forums dislike the film so much. I literally found nothing wrong with the film, and I was prepared to find stuff because of some of the post headings I saw. I was disappointed with the song, but I'm thinking that will improve with multiple viewings. Is it possible to be too knowledgeable as a Bond fan? Can we get to the point where we think we know more than Babs and MGW, even Fleming? Just some thoughts.

Don't worry, __7, you're not alone. I for one really enjoyed the film (as you can tell from my beaming review in the Member Reviews forum), but it's always fun to imagine what could have been if things were done differently.

[deth]

dumping Mathis in the trash. That's too harsh, even for Bond.

[MajorB]

First of all, let me say overall that I just saw it a few hours ago and enjoyed it a lot. But since you asked . . .

Action scenes--I agree with others that there were probably a few too many, especially since they didn't always advance the story. One or two scenes of suspense rather than all-out action would have been nice. Especially since--and this is my biggest complaint about the movie--the scenes were shot and edited so ferentically that, as has been noted repeatedly, it was often hard to tell what was going on. The opening car chase and the airplane battle were particularly challenging. And while the boat chase was a little easier to keep track of, I honestly couldn't tell what Bond did to end it--something with a boathook was all I could tell. It's a shame, because as far as I could tell, the scenes were well choreographed, but I didn't enjoy them nearly as much as I might have.

The other thing I might have changed: There was a somewhat random feel to the plotting, as people would pop in and out of the story and Bond would bounce to various locations. Other Bonds have used the same approach, with Bond following various leads and not knowing how they fit together, but somehow this felt less cohesive than some of the other stories. I think one factor was that Greene really doesn't do much in the story except meet with people. Even the clumination of his plan is to force a guy to sign a contract. Except when Bond and Camille stumbled across Greene's secret dam, the whole scheme was something that was talked about rather than seen. Something a little more, I dunno, active might have given the story a stronger core.

But like I say, I liked it a lot. It has more characterization and more light moments than reviewers have given it credit for, and some truly moving moments--Mathis's last scene is the best example. 2011 is seeming a long, long way away . . .

[Gri007]

I would have had the fight/footchase with Mitchell slowed down, so you could be able to see who's who. Also I wouldn't have bothered slowing down the fight sequence for the operah scene. To me it seems unnecessary to have that scene filmed in the way it had been. What was the point. What exactly was Forster trying to prove.

[Aparition]

I think it's important to remember that this is Bond's second 00 mission, not his 22. His character is still evolving. To me the film is about bond dissociating from the world and abandoning/tempering the love/revenge motives for his actions.

We see a series of "accidental" deaths, that lead M to believe he's a rabid dog, killing indescriminately. Bond is partially deluding himself into believing that his actions are motivated solely by duty.

In the end, he obviously sets asides revenge and states, "I never left."

This theme of the conflict between personal motives and duty is pervasive. The quantity of action sequences is necessary to build M's impression of bond as a rabid dog driven by his emotion. It sets the stage for bond being "misunderstood." The dumping of Mathis was symbolic of detachment. "He wouldn't mind". To me this was bond dissociating from the previous moment of cradling Mathis as he died.

The instructional dialogue between bond and camille also reflect this interplay between revenge and duty. How killing is different when it's personal.

The Opera, Tosca, is about jealousy and love having disastrous consequences.

If I were to change things, I'd add more explicit dialogue about this conflict and how it relates to the action. I think it's too subtle. Admittedly, This would be a challenge. I think the instructional dialogue between Camille and Bond was an effort at this but it was too detached from the action.

[tim partridge]

I would have:

1) stuck the gunbarrel at the beginning OR introduced the film with a variation of the polka dot motif like in DR NO.

2) Replaced Richard Pearson and Dan Bradley with Stuart Baird and Alexander Witt (the Eon "family" thing that MGW/BB don't seem to care for anymore).

3) Handed over the lions share of the action to Alexander Witt to direct as second unit.

4) Kept Kleinman for the titles or would have just had MK12 handle the title sequence only.

5) Avoided those horrible location titles (and used the time and money for MK12 to render a better title sequence).

6) used miniatures effects as well as the digital and live action tricks.

7) Let someone else design/direct the gunbarrel than whoever ended up doing it.

8) Forced Winehouse, Arnold and Ronson to deliver their Bond track, no matter what.

9) Not silenced the action during the Tosca sequence.

Edited by tim partridge, 14 November 2008 - 11:44 PM.

[columbo]

Gema arterton in a largest role.
She have a very small paper!!

[Publius]

Can't think of anything right now (a good sign which probably means I'll only have minor quibbles with QoS down the line), but to defend the PTS, if they didn't include it we would have had complaints about how Bond was able to infiltrate White's villa and leave with him unnoticed.

Also, it's colloquially referred to as a "teaser" sequence for a reason.

[eddychaput]

Overall, I think there is more to like than dislike about QOS. However, nothing being perfect in this world:

1-I would have slowed down the editing in the car chase, foot rooftop chase and boat chase. I know a lot of people on the boards are defending the editing style, and good for them if they enjoyed it. But I had a hard time digesting it.

2-A completely revamped title sequence. I really didn't like it much.

3-I would have made Fields more important. She lightens the mood a little, but overall, I didn't understand what her purpose was.


3-Before I say this, I want to make it clear that I did like the Camille character. However, I think it would have been interesting to make her even more vicious, almost blood thirsty. At first, she and Bond are working well together, but Bond, by seeing how destructive vengeful behavior can by through Camille's actions, would realize that he can't let a personal vendetta overtake him.

I know that last part consists pretty of much of completely rewriting the Camille/Bond storyline, but for some reason it plays out really cool in my head. But, like I said, I think the Camille character is fine just the way she is.

[Captain Tightpants]

I would change the way everyone assumes the so-called "Traditional Bond Formula" s the only way to make a Bond film.

[Mister E]

1. Get rid of the damn jump cuts

2. Dump Arnold

3. Dump the title song.

[Se7en]

The one thing i would change is definitely the editing. It was way to jumpy.

[Captain Grimes]

Well, if I could remake QoS and impose my own (naturally subjective and eminently debatable) opinions, I would:

(1) cut out the silly mimicry of the Bourne movies (the sloppy editing, the excessive violence, the almost complete lack of humor);

(2) replace a few of the peeling-back-the-layers-of-the-tortured-soul moments for a few of the acting-like-an-actual-secret-agent moments;

(3) use a single, respectable font for the city names;

(4) give both Mathis and Leiter twice as much screen-time;

and (5) try to keep in mind that Bond movies are supposed to be fun and entertaining and suspenseful, not unremittingly grim.