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Tanner is back.


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#61 Col. Sun

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 01:49 PM

I wonder whether there was a conscious reason why Tanner wasn't included in CASINO ROYALE, and they briefly created this new character of Villiers... I do hope that Rory Kinnear becomes a recurring character in the next few movies, and he's not just appearing in QUANTUM OF SOLACE.


I think he will. Rory Kinnear is a very good actor and I suspect his casting is for future films as well.

#62 Royal Dalton

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 02:34 PM

I do hope he's not involved in any horse riding scenes at the Palio.


Not even remotely funny.


What do you mean by that? :tup:


Rory's father, the actor Roy Kinnear, tragically died when he fell from a horse during filming of 'The Return Of The Musketeers' (1989).

To be fair to Jim, Roy Kinnear didn't die falling off the horse. He only dislocated his pelvis. He died later on in hospital, due to medical neglect.

#63 Head of S

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 04:23 PM

The inference seemed to be there in Jim's original remarks. I am fully cognizant of the circumstances surrounding Roy Kinnear's death. He would not have died had he not fallen from a horse during the making of a movie. Broken pelvis, internal bleeding and medical care are all consequential.

I also appreciate Jim's subsequent response.

Head of S

#64 Leon

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:34 PM

Why is he being referred to as "M's assistant"? Like he's replacing Villiers.

Bill Tanner is Chief of Staff.

#65 Nicolas Suszczyk

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:50 PM

Was Bill in The Man with the Golden Gun? In which scene?

#66 Vauxhall

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 11:01 PM

Was Bill in The Man with the Golden Gun? In which scene?

Tanner is in the office with M and Colthorpe when they explain to Bond that a golden bullet with 007 on it has been sent to MI6.

#67 Nicolas Suszczyk

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 11:25 PM

Ahh... "Good Morning, Sir... Colthorpe... Chief of staff"

Quoting Ourumov: "Thanks for bringing it to my attention." :tup:

Edited by Nicolas Suszczyk, 26 January 2008 - 11:25 PM.


#68 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:14 AM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?

#69 sharpshooter

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:07 AM

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?

I do. I think the only combat this Tanner has seen is either World of Warcraft or Halo. But even so, I imagine he’s not one to be messed with!

#70 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:11 AM

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?

But even so, I imagine he’s not one to be messed with!

Assuming he's not stuffing his face with SpaghettiOs at the time.

B)

#71 David Schofield

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:29 PM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?


Pretty damn dire casting and characterisation, to be honest. Don't know why anyone would appropriate the name "Tanner" from Fleming to give to this character. Seems some smart-B) involved with the script thought it would just titilate fanboys to use a Fleming name. Very lazy.

But then, like casting Felix Leiter, we're probably unlikely to see Bill Tanner cast properly; to do so would mean, in both cases, casting someone almost Bond's equal - remember both Leiter and Tanner are very close friends of JB - and that would never happen as EON would fear the impact of raining on the parade of their golden-balls leading man, sadly.

#72 Lachesis

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:47 PM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?


Pretty damn dire casting and characterisation, to be honest. Don't know why anyone would appropriate the name "Tanner" from Fleming to give to this character. Seems some smart-B) involved with the script thought it would just titilate fanboys to use a Fleming name. Very lazy.

But then, like casting Felix Leiter, we're probably unlikely to see Bill Tanner cast properly; to do so would mean, in both cases, casting someone almost Bond's equal - remember both Leiter and Tanner are very close friends of JB - and that would never happen as EON would fear the impact of raining on the parade of their golden-balls leading man, sadly.


Unfortunately this problem does seem to becoming acute again much as it did in the early 70's, Bonds friends and enemies are being written as increasingly clueless, presumably to make it easier to promote Bond himself. It even afflicts M now as she seems to panic and gush at events which must be par for the course in espionage circles...'how does Bond get these codes', 'a double agent in my own staff' - these are professionals and need to be afforded some credibility to fill the positions they do and emphasise their value/meaning to Bond himself. (Although I do believe Felix will get more chances to shine going forward, if only to appease US fans.)

#73 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:02 PM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?


But then, like casting Felix Leiter, we're probably unlikely to see Bill Tanner cast properly; to do so would mean, in both cases, casting someone almost Bond's equal - remember both Leiter and Tanner are very close friends of JB - and that would never happen as EON would fear the impact of raining on the parade of their golden-balls leading man, sadly.

I completely agree regarding Tanner.

However, I do think EON has gotten Leiter right for the first time since 1973 with the casting of Jeffrey Wright. While he's not a Caucasian Texan, he does have good chemistry with Daniel Craig's 007 and is a convincing ex-Marine/CIA operative. I'm also a fan of the beard for some reason.

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.

Rory Kinnear is 10 years YOUNGER than Daniel Craig, pudgy, and in the beginning stages of developing a bald spot. The only military engagement he's ever seen is the battle to be the first in line at the MI6 break room on donut day. B) :tdown:

#74 The Shark

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:38 PM

Completely asinine casting and characterisation on the writers behalfs.

No sense at all that he was Bonds mate, or went out for drinks with him at Scotts after working hours. Simply lowered to the status of M's lapdog, occasionally spouting 'M'am' every couple of lines.

#75 dutch_pepper

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 06:00 PM

I thought the character Villiers in Casino royale was far more interesting than Kinnear's Leiter. I think he's the only one in Quantum of Solace who's completely miscast.

#76 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:05 PM

I thought the character Villiers in Casino royale was far more interesting than Kinnear's Leiter. I think he's the only one in Quantum of Solace who's completely miscast.

Sorry to nitpick but you mean Kinnear's Tanner, not Leiter.

#77 marktmurphy

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:10 PM

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.


I dunno; I thought Kitchen in GoldenEye was definitely pitched at the right level and Kitchen played him well; for some reason Bond didn't react correctly. It certainly felt wrong as soon as Bond called him 'Tanner': Bond should call him Bill.

#78 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:39 PM

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.


I dunno; I thought Kitchen in GoldenEye was definitely pitched at the right level and Kitchen played him well; for some reason Bond didn't react correctly. It certainly felt wrong as soon as Bond called him 'Tanner': Bond should call him Bill.

In the context of the MI6 HQ setting, having Bond call Tanner by his surname is a sign of respect regardless of their relationship outside of work. Therefore I believe it's appropriate for Bond to say "Tanner" in both GoldenEye and The World is not Enough.

For example, some lawyers have judges as personal friends outside of work but it would be extremely disrespectful for the lawyer to address him/her by anything other than "Judge" or "Your Honor" in a courtroom setting.

#79 marktmurphy

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:30 PM

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.


I dunno; I thought Kitchen in GoldenEye was definitely pitched at the right level and Kitchen played him well; for some reason Bond didn't react correctly. It certainly felt wrong as soon as Bond called him 'Tanner': Bond should call him Bill.

In the context of the MI6 HQ setting, having Bond call Tanner by his surname is a sign of respect regardless of their relationship outside of work. Therefore I believe it's appropriate for Bond to say "Tanner" in both GoldenEye and The World is not Enough.

For example, some lawyers have judges as personal friends outside of work but it would be extremely disrespectful for the lawyer to address him/her by anything other than "Judge" or "Your Honor" in a courtroom setting.


Tanner calls him James. And then they chat about M's kids and call her names behind her back. I hardly think they're very worried about being professional! B)
And he calls him Bill in the books in work too. And you wouldn't call a superior by their surname alone if you were trying to show respect. So no; it just makes it seem Bond isn't very friendly with Tanner, even though Kitchen seems to be trying to play them as friendly. It's odd.

#80 Righty007

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:00 PM

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.


I dunno; I thought Kitchen in GoldenEye was definitely pitched at the right level and Kitchen played him well; for some reason Bond didn't react correctly. It certainly felt wrong as soon as Bond called him 'Tanner': Bond should call him Bill.

In the context of the MI6 HQ setting, having Bond call Tanner by his surname is a sign of respect regardless of their relationship outside of work. Therefore I believe it's appropriate for Bond to say "Tanner" in both GoldenEye and The World is not Enough.

For example, some lawyers have judges as personal friends outside of work but it would be extremely disrespectful for the lawyer to address him/her by anything other than "Judge" or "Your Honor" in a courtroom setting.


Tanner calls him James. And then they chat about M's kids and call her names behind her back. I hardly think they're very worried about being professional! B)
And he calls him Bill in the books in work too. And you wouldn't call a superior by their surname alone if you were trying to show respect. So no; it just makes it seem Bond isn't very friendly with Tanner, even though Kitchen seems to be trying to play them as friendly. It's odd.

My bad. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :tdown:

#81 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 06:12 AM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?


Pretty damn dire casting and characterisation, to be honest. Don't know why anyone would appropriate the name "Tanner" from Fleming to give to this character. Seems some smart-B) involved with the script thought it would just titilate fanboys to use a Fleming name. Very lazy.

But then, like casting Felix Leiter, we're probably unlikely to see Bill Tanner cast properly; to do so would mean, in both cases, casting someone almost Bond's equal - remember both Leiter and Tanner are very close friends of JB - and that would never happen as EON would fear the impact of raining on the parade of their golden-balls leading man, sadly.

I agree. It's always great to see Bill Tanner return, however in this case Rory Kinnear's casting of M's chief of staff is all wrong--and as written, the Tanner character is all wrong. Consequently, I was disappointed with the result. For all Kinnear's Tanner does in Quantum Of Solace, he may as well have been Villiers returning. Honestly, I don't see why he isn't called Villiers. Tanner in QOS is nothing more than a glorified secretary and the literary character is anything but that. I think they just called the character Tanner to satisfy hard-core fans.

The only time they've gotten close to Fleming's Bill Tanner is with Michael Kitchen but he is 5 years older than Pierce Brosnan. A sense of camaraderie between Bond and Tanner has been absent from ALL portrayals of Tanner in the EON series, which is a fundamental part of Fleming's Bill Tanner. A real shame.


I dunno; I thought Kitchen in GoldenEye was definitely pitched at the right level and Kitchen played him well; for some reason Bond didn't react correctly. It certainly felt wrong as soon as Bond called him 'Tanner': Bond should call him Bill.

In the context of the MI6 HQ setting, having Bond call Tanner by his surname is a sign of respect regardless of their relationship outside of work. Therefore I believe it's appropriate for Bond to say "Tanner" in both GoldenEye and The World is not Enough.

For example, some lawyers have judges as personal friends outside of work but it would be extremely disrespectful for the lawyer to address him/her by anything other than "Judge" or "Your Honor" in a courtroom setting.


Tanner calls him James. And then they chat about M's kids and call her names behind her back. I hardly think they're very worried about being professional! :tdown:
And he calls him Bill in the books in work too. And you wouldn't call a superior by their surname alone if you were trying to show respect. So no; it just makes it seem Bond isn't very friendly with Tanner, even though Kitchen seems to be trying to play them as friendly. It's odd.

Michael Kitchen is clearly the best Bill Tanner the series has ever had and yet something has been missing in his relationship with 007 as has been mentioned. I agree that Bond should call him Bill but my guess is that in GoldenEye he calls Tanner by his last name is to make sure that the point gets home to literary fans that the character is in fact M's chief of staff Bill Tanner. I have a harder time by how an upset Bond demands the chief of staff's attention when he forcefully says "Tanner!" in The World Is Not Enough. It just isn't right to the literary relationship.

The only other reason I can see why Bond calls Tanner by his last name in GoldenEye and TWINE is that he is in a public setting with other MI6 employees so he calls him Tanner. Had they been in private, maybe they would have 007 call him Bill. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's a theory.

#82 David Schofield

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 07:06 AM

What do you all think of Rory Kinnear's portrayal of Bill Tanner?

I was a little disappointed because physically he didn't strike me as the former military man that Ian Fleming created. Anybody agree?


But then, like casting Felix Leiter, we're probably unlikely to see Bill Tanner cast properly; to do so would mean, in both cases, casting someone almost Bond's equal - remember both Leiter and Tanner are very close friends of JB - and that would never happen as EON would fear the impact of raining on the parade of their golden-balls leading man, sadly.

I completely agree regarding Tanner.

However, I do think EON has gotten Leiter right for the first time since 1973 with the casting of Jeffrey Wright. While he's not a Caucasian Texan, he does have good chemistry with Daniel Craig's 007 and is a convincing ex-Marine/CIA operative. I'm also a fan of the beard for some reason.


Not convinced about Wright as Leiter. Seems to come from the Norman Burton school of CIA dogsbody rather than the Fleming American-equivalent-of-James Bond.

However, EON have stuck us with him. So let us see Wright-Leiter out OFF DUTY with Craig-Bond and we'll see how it goes. He might convince me then.

#83 Guy Haines

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:31 AM

I think the best portrayal of Tanner was by Michael Kitchen, during the Brosnan era. Kitchen has that clipped accent and air of quiet authority down to a tee (see "Foyle's War", for example). I've already suggested him elsewhere on this site as a replacement for Dame Judi when she retires as "M".

Regarding Jeffrey Wright as Leiter, he definitely does not remind me of Norman Burton's version of the character. I actually think he's closer to the original, Jack Lord. The trouble is he's had a criminally low amount of time on screen to establish himself as Leiter. But he's no "dogsbody" sidekick of Bond. Remember the line when 007 has been cleaned out by Le Chiffre and can't buy back in to the game?

Leiter offers the buy in on condition that the CIA gets Le Chiffre. Bond asks about the money - "Do we look as if we need the money?" replies Felix, almost arrogantly.

"Dogsbody"? I don't think so. At that point it's Bond who is the supplicant.

#84 David Schofield

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:39 AM

Regarding Jeffrey Wright as Leiter, he definitely does not remind me of Norman Burton's version of the character. I actually think he's closer to the original, Jack Lord. The trouble is he's had a criminally low amount of time on screen to establish himself as Leiter. But he's no "dogsbody" sidekick of Bond. Remember the line when 007 has been cleaned out by Le Chiffre and can't buy back in to the game?

Leiter offers the buy in on condition that the CIA gets Le Chiffre. Bond asks about the money - "Do we look as if we need the money?" replies Felix, almost arrogantly.

"Dogsbody"? I don't think so. At that point it's Bond who is the supplicant.


I think, sadly, the way Beam treats him in QOS results in the very image of a doormat, not unlike Jack Lord (and I think Lord came across as a stooopid American foil for Connery's cool English gentleman than Fleming's American-equal-of-Bond: he FOLLOWS Bond from the airport(!), he's been trying to unravel Strangway's death and topling without success, seemingly oblivious to Dr No as a person, JB tells him to B) off, I'm off to Crab Key on my own...: Leiter shouldn't have been in DN. Lord looks good, though)

I DO agree Wright has been poorly used, particularly in QOS. Though, again, having Leiter at the card table in CR and his frustrating losing made hime, well, look a looser, compared to the dick-duelling of the uber-cool Bond and Le Chiffre. His offering Bond cash simply made him look like an American international bureaucrat who knows the way of the USA will be obeyed as soon as money is offered. Yes, it is arrogant, but not in the Fleming-cool Leiter way, unfortunately.

#85 Guy Haines

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:27 AM

Regarding Jeffrey Wright as Leiter, he definitely does not remind me of Norman Burton's version of the character. I actually think he's closer to the original, Jack Lord. The trouble is he's had a criminally low amount of time on screen to establish himself as Leiter. But he's no "dogsbody" sidekick of Bond. Remember the line when 007 has been cleaned out by Le Chiffre and can't buy back in to the game?

Leiter offers the buy in on condition that the CIA gets Le Chiffre. Bond asks about the money - "Do we look as if we need the money?" replies Felix, almost arrogantly.

"Dogsbody"? I don't think so. At that point it's Bond who is the supplicant.


I think, sadly, the way Beam treats him in QOS results in the very image of a doormat, not unlike Jack Lord (and I think Lord came across as a stooopid American foil for Connery's cool English gentleman than Fleming's American-equal-of-Bond: he FOLLOWS Bond from the airport(!), he's been trying to unravel Strangway's death and topling without success, seemingly oblivious to Dr No as a person, JB tells him to B) off, I'm off to Crab Key on my own...: Leiter shouldn't have been in DN. Lord looks good, though)

I DO agree Wright has been poorly used, particularly in QOS. Though, again, having Leiter at the card table in CR and his frustrating losing made hime, well, look a looser, compared to the dick-duelling of the uber-cool Bond and Le Chiffre. His offering Bond cash simply made him look like an American international bureaucrat who knows the way of the USA will be obeyed as soon as money is offered. Yes, it is arrogant, but not in the Fleming-cool Leiter way, unfortunately.


Gregg Beam does patronise Leiter, but the way Felix replies to him, I think, has a hint of irritation suggesting that he feels he's working for an idiot. As it turns out, of course, for we learn that Felix replaces Beam at the end of QoS. Real talent will out in the end! :tdown:

#86 Zorin Industries

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:42 AM

I thought Rory Kinnear was exactly right - and screams modern day ex British Army.

#87 Lachesis

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:13 PM

I think the best portrayal of Tanner was by Michael Kitchen, during the Brosnan era. Kitchen has that clipped accent and air of quiet authority down to a tee (see "Foyle's War", for example). I've already suggested him elsewhere on this site as a replacement for Dame Judi when she retires as "M".


Agreed I though Kitchen's portrayal was solid and deserving of more development, he could also make a very solid 'M' as you suggest.


I think, sadly, the way Beam treats him in QOS results in the very image of a doormat, not unlike Jack Lord (and I think Lord came across as a stooopid American foil for Connery's cool English gentleman than Fleming's American-equal-of-Bond: he FOLLOWS Bond from the airport(!), he's been trying to unravel Strangway's death and topling without success, seemingly oblivious to Dr No as a person, JB tells him to B) off, I'm off to Crab Key on my own...: Leiter shouldn't have been in DN. Lord looks good, though)

I DO agree Wright has been poorly used, particularly in QOS. Though, again, having Leiter at the card table in CR and his frustrating losing made hime, well, look a looser, compared to the dick-duelling of the uber-cool Bond and Le Chiffre. His offering Bond cash simply made him look like an American international bureaucrat who knows the way of the USA will be obeyed as soon as money is offered. Yes, it is arrogant, but not in the Fleming-cool Leiter way, unfortunately.


I think Lieter gets a decent amount of respect in both Lord's and Wright's hands, of course the script has to allow Bond the lion share of the workload but in neither case is Leiter being made to look impotent simply, perhaps, more restrianed by proceedure and protocol than Bond himself. Additionally in Dr No at least the British Empire legacy remains relevent with Bond probably given greater legitimate authority to investigate a commonwealth locale.

#88 Loomis

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:21 PM

I thought Rory Kinnear was exactly right - and screams modern day ex British Army.


Really? I can't say Kinnear's ample form ever made me feel that the character had been in the army. To me, the fleshy joviality of his Tanner screams MP (that's Member of Parliament, not Military Police).

Also, isn't Tanner supposed to be Bond's best mate, and indeed arguably his one true friend in England? (Or so my readings of Fleming would lead me to believe.) Why, then, is there not even the slightest, most fleeting hint of such a relationship in QUANTUM OF SOLACE (or any of the other Bond films, come to that)?

#89 Zographos

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:58 PM

Also, isn't Tanner supposed to be Bond's best mate, and indeed arguably his one true friend in England? (Or so my readings of Fleming would lead me to believe.) Why, then, is there not even the slightest, most fleeting hint of such a relationship in QUANTUM OF SOLACE (or any of the other Bond films, come to that)?

Well, I don't think Fleming did much more than hint at it himself, but probably the presence of Felix Leiter negated much need for Tanner. Fairly good idea, since I think the Leiter/Bond relationship was always the more important one.

#90 marktmurphy

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:24 PM

I thought Rory Kinnear was exactly right - and screams modern day ex British Army.


Really? I can't say Kinnear's ample form ever made me feel that the character had been in the army. To me, the fleshy joviality of his Tanner screams MP (that's Member of Parliament, not Military Police).

Also, isn't Tanner supposed to be Bond's best mate, and indeed arguably his one true friend in England? (Or so my readings of Fleming would lead me to believe.) Why, then, is there not even the slightest, most fleeting hint of such a relationship in QUANTUM OF SOLACE (or any of the other Bond films, come to that)?


True. I can buy Kitchen's Tanner as being ex-military, though. Not a front line soldier of course, but an officer in some way. Although there's a bit more friendliness between them than with Kinnear's, they're certainly not best mates.