13 replies to this topic

[triviachamp]

Well P&W had the worst dialogue (at least in TWINE and DAD) but personally I choose Tom Mankiewicz (or however it is spelt). The thing that really annoys me about his movies is that the plotting is terrible. They seem to be a bunch of action and sex scenes combined together for no rhyme or reason. The other Bond films at least try to have Scene A lead to Scene B. I don't get that feeling from his movies.

Also all three of them have a moronic "twist" in the middle that feels more sleep inducing than suprising. Let's see Whyte is Blofeld. Shocked that Blofeld and the third-billed Charles Gray have more than a few minutes of screentime no? And erm why exactly is Blofeld still up to his usual tricks when he is presumed dead and has access to a large fortune? And he has assumed the identity of a recluse that no one has seen in years and can imitate his voice so it will be difficult for anyone to find out who he is(OT: Jimmy Dean does not strike me as a "eccentric recluse"). And why does Bond suddenly forget that he was filled with murderous rage against Blofeld at the beginning of the film? How sloppy can you get? Also it turns that Blofeld has another "hold the world for ransom" gambit that is very poorly explained.

Of course Live and Let Die has the "Kanaga is Mr. Big" "twist." Shocked that these two well developed-oops....poorly developed non-existent characters are the same?

The Man with The Golden Gun unfortunately reveals that Scaramanga is not really after Bond but he really is a Solar Power enthusiast. What could have been an interesting twist in the Bond formula is eliminated for more lame "Bond villain" shenanigans. Considering that all the ads promoted this aspect of the film perhaps this twist dissapointed many and was a factor in the film's dissappointing performance. It doesn't help that Andrea is soon killed off resulting the twist having no revelancy to the rest of the film and even worse Bond and the film forget about her!

[Vanish]

Tom Mankiewicz, by far. P&W wrote the worst dialogue, no question, but their work didn't get on my nerves nearly as much as Mankiewicz's did.

His obsession with police cars getting smashed for "comedic" value and tepid chase sequences just irritated me. His Bond films just felt too "Americanized," which is of course what the producers were going for with DAF and LALD.

[triviachamp]

His obsession with police cars getting smashed for "comedic" value and tepid chase sequences just irritated me.

Good point the chase scenes were just blah.
The car chase in DAF makes no sense when you think about it. Er why exactly does Bond have to escape the American Police? Can't Leiter just bail him out? At least AVTAK tries to give Bond a reason to run away!

[capungo]

Hmm...

I'd have to go W/ Purvis and Wade on this one. Their movies just felt generic, VERY generic, which in my opinion is worse then Mankiewicz's sort of strategy of throwing Bond into random movie genres(Blaxploitation, Kung Fu). I'm not going to try and defend DAF, aside from saying that Dean's Whyte was actually one of the few positives of that movie IMO. LALD, I thought, was pretty damn entertaining. He actually pulled the Pepper/Police angle pretty well in this one(although TMWTGG would later tarnish that), and I thought the supernatural vibes in it was something new for a Bond movie. As for The Man With the Golden Gun there were some plot holes in it(just who were those thugs fighting Bond in the Bellydancer's room), and now that you mention it, having Andrea right up until the end would've been a better move(imagine how the scene w/ Bond and Scaramanga at the lunch table could've played out w/ her there). Still, I liked the fact that it took Bond and threw him into a completely trippy environment he had not been in before, not to mention Christopher Lee as an anti Bond.

One other thing I must give Mankiewicz credit for is how he kept giving Moore nasty scenes to do. The scene w/ Andrea in the hotel room is possibly my favorite way Moore spun his Bond, as a person whose light gentlemanliness instantly became quite something quite cold and threatening when he needed it to be.(even though he was supposed to loath it).

Although P&W had some solid scenes(Dr. Kaufman and "I never Miss" come to mind), and I feel they got a nice, underrated villain out of Carver, their movies as a whole felt terribly vanilla to me.

[jaguar007]

With some respect to Tom Mankiewicz, the idea of Blofeld impersinating Willard Whyte came from Cubby Broccoli after he had a dream about his friend, Howard Hughes being impersonated by someone else in his Vegas days.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

As for The Man With the Golden Gun there were some plot holes in it(just who were those thugs fighting Bond in the Bellydancer's room), and now that you mention it, having Andrea right up until the end would've been a better move(imagine how the scene w/ Bond and Scaramanga at the lunch table could've played out w/ her there).

I think the filmmakers didn't allow Andrea to be the main girl because that might have seemed to similar to LALD, i.e., a woman under the villain's control that Bond rescues not to mention TB although in that one, the woman rescues Bond.

Still, I liked the fact that it took Bond and threw him into a completely trippy environment he had not been in before, not to mention Christopher Lee as an anti Bond.

One other thing I must give Mankiewicz credit for is how he kept giving Moore nasty scenes to do. The scene w/ Andrea in the hotel room is possibly my favorite way Moore spun his Bond, as a person whose light gentlemanliness instantly became quite something quite cold and threatening when he needed it to be.(even though he was supposed to loath it).

Good points. Also, Lee's Scaramanga is presently my favorite villain and TMWTGG features my favorite Moore-as-Bond performance partly because of his relative youth in the role and partly because of those "nasty" scenes and the way he dealt with Sr. Lazer.

Although P&W had some solid scenes(Dr. Kaufman and "I never Miss" come to mind), and I feel they got a nice, underrated villain out of Carver, their movies as a whole felt terribly vanilla to me.

But Carver and Dr. Kaufman didn't come from P&W, they came from Bruce Feirstein who I consider the worst Bond screenwriter.

[triviachamp]

As for The Man With the Golden Gun there were some plot holes in it(just who were those thugs fighting Bond in the Bellydancer's room), and now that you mention it, having Andrea right up until the end would've been a better move(imagine how the scene w/ Bond and Scaramanga at the lunch table could've played out w/ her there).

I think the filmmakers didn't allow Andrea to be the main girl because that might have seemed to similar to LALD, i.e., a woman under the villain's control that Bond rescues not to mention TB although in that one, the woman rescues Bond.

Good point but they could have had Bond be upset that he failed to protect Andrea. If that was too "serious" then why not eliminate the character? Oh wait Bond needs to have sex with at least two women of course!

[adamwest007]

Tom's films are the wittiest in the series.
I'm pretty sure the whole scaramanga being connected to the solex thing was an addition of Maibaum.
Is it true that Tom had some input to the writing of TSWLM and MR?
Perhaps thats whats lacking in the 80's bond films - No mankiewicz wit.

Anyone get the new superman boxset? Lots of interviews with tom in that. He seems like a writer who has his together...

I'd say scripts with input by purvis and wade or michael g wilson are the weakest.

[capungo]

But Carver and Dr. Kaufman didn't come from P&W, they came from Bruce Feirstein who I consider the worst Bond screenwriter.

Oops, my bad. I might have to rethink my P&W vote on account of that, as although I liked Kaufman, Carver, and about 1/2 of the Paris/Bond relationship, a lot of my problems came from that movie as well, namely how Bond turned into Arnie at the end. Just have to ask, given the topic here, why did you think Feirstein was the worst?

I think the filmmakers didn't allow Andrea to be the main girl because that might have seemed to similar to LALD, i.e., a woman under the villain's control that Bond rescues not to mention TB although in that one, the woman rescues Bond.

Good point but they could have had Bond be upset that he failed to protect Andrea. If that was too "serious" then why not eliminate the character? Oh wait Bond needs to have sex with at least two women of course!

Hmm... good points on both ends. In response to triviachamp, I do think that having a grief-stricken Bond for the last 2/3s of the movie would've been too heavy, given the previous mood of the story. Not to mention that I think Bond just wouldn't get that attached to most Bond girls(another problem I had with most of the Brosnan Bonds). In short, while I now almost wish they had kept her around, I see Khan's point, and if Anders had to go, it's better that Bond get over her and get back on with his job. As for the 2 girls thing... well he could've rewritten the belly dancer bit a little, no

[PrinceKamalKhan]

As for The Man With the Golden Gun there were some plot holes in it(just who were those thugs fighting Bond in the Bellydancer's room), and now that you mention it, having Andrea right up until the end would've been a better move(imagine how the scene w/ Bond and Scaramanga at the lunch table could've played out w/ her there).

I think the filmmakers didn't allow Andrea to be the main girl because that might have seemed to similar to LALD, i.e., a woman under the villain's control that Bond rescues not to mention TB although in that one, the woman rescues Bond.

Good point but they could have had Bond be upset that he failed to protect Andrea. If that was too "serious" then why not eliminate the character? Oh wait Bond needs to have sex with at least two women of course!

Of course! The 2-girls-plus formula has to be followed. I have a similar complaint against Tomorrow Never Dies, i.e., 007 fails to protect Paris from the villain who unlike Andrea was supposed to be the love of Brosnan's Bond's life but within 5 minutes of finding her dead, he's laughing it up having fun in the parking garage BMW chase scene and only makes a scant reference to Paris in the remainder of the film. Yep, as I stated, Feirstein gets my vote.

[capungo]

...007 fails to protect Paris from the villain who unlike Andrea was supposed to be the love of Brosnan's Bond's life but within 5 minutes of finding her dead, he's laughing it up having fun in the parking garage BMW chase scene...

Haha, you jerk, now I'll never be able to enjoy the brilliance that was the reinflatable tire gag anymore

Although I do agree with you that Paris was one of the VERY few Bond girls Bond should have a real emotional attachment to.

[adamwest007]

World is not Enough is worse than TND. At least I thought TND was cool when it came out. I thought TWINE was crud when it came out.
Who is to blame for TWINE? Feirstein?

Wait i cant remember who had to do with which. Did Feirstein have anything to do with Goldeneye or was that Michael France. I always get them two confused. I know one of those did goldeneye and TND and even a draft of TWINE.

DAD was waaay better than TWINE. Perhaps because of the fact that it was an attempt at a generic Bond film which I thought was good at the time, after being disappointed at whatever TWINE was supposed to be.
DAD was Bond kicking (over-the-top of course) where TWINE was all touching tears on computer screens, and judi dench.

[SecretAgentFan]

Actually, unless you were able to read the first drafts you just cannot answer this question. Scripts are collaborations - what ends up on the screen might not represent the intentions of the screenwriter at all.

Also, I loved all the Bond films. So every writer working on them had at least enough input to make them so enjoyable.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

...007 fails to protect Paris from the villain who unlike Andrea was supposed to be the love of Brosnan's Bond's life but within 5 minutes of finding her dead, he's laughing it up having fun in the parking garage BMW chase scene...

Haha, you jerk, now I'll never be able to enjoy the brilliance that was the reinflatable tire gag anymore

Although I do agree with you that Paris was one of the VERY few Bond girls Bond should have a real emotional attachment to.

Exactly. Compare the Brosnan Bond's reaction over the murder of a woman he supposedly loved in TND to how the Dalton Bond reacted to the death of Della and the maiming of Felix in LTK. It's like in the Brosnan era they kept trying to combine the Moore type Bond films and the Dalton type films at the same time. Not always an ideal or consistent combination.