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Karl Urban a serious contender?


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#1 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 01:58 PM

Some interesting info here. I'm surprised that Karl Urban hasn't been discussed a lot more as a potential Bond (especially by those of us who support the likes of Owen and Craig). I'm not 100% sold on him, but think he might be a pretty good choice (and his BOURNE SUPREMACY/LOTR co-star Marton Csokas might be even better). I can't see David Morrissey as Bond, but I suspect that that would be true of any actor I'd seen play Gordon Brown. And Campbell and Craig didn't get on like a house on fire?

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The Stax Report on James Bond
Thoughts on the search for the next 007.

by Stax

September 9, 2005 - Stax here with my thoughts on the much publicized search for the next James Bond. According to reports, there is a summit happening soon between Eon Productions and the Sony brass, the parent company of former Bond studio MGM. The purpose of this meeting is to select a new 007 for Casino Royale, the next installment in the long-running franchise.

Rather than suggest even more actors that I think might be right for the role (check out the related links at the bottom of this page for past columns on that), I'll be commenting on what has been documented about the search thus far.

According to a recent Hollywood Reporter feature, the powers-that-be have not been able to agree on a suitable successor to Pierce Brosnan, arguably the best Bond since Sean Connery. The reason why Brosnan is out of the series seems to be twofold: his "usurious" salary demands and his age.

Brosnan, 52, is only a few years younger than Roger Moore was when he retired his licence to kill after A View to a Kill. Moreover, the next film is Casino Royale, Ian Fleming's first Bond novel. The movie will track Bond's early days and the mission that transformed him into the cold, hard misogynist killer fans know. You simply can't have a fifty-something Brosnan as Bond in his early days.

On a practical level, it seems the Bond filmmakers want a British Matt Damon, the young star who has made the Jason Bourne series a successful franchise. This makes one wonder, though, if the filmmakers are mistaking the real reason why the Bourne films are a success. It's not because they have a thirtysomething lead but because they are lean, mean throwbacks to old school spy flicks. In other words, Bourne succeeds precisely because it isn't big, bloated Bond.

Still, the filmmakers and studio brass are not without justification for seeking out a younger, less well known actor for the role. Basically, you get someone unknown and hungry that will sign away the next decade of their career for a relative pittance in exchange for greater fame and opportunities down the line. That said, most of the reported contenders are hardly that desperate. Indeed, many of them, while not household names, can be choosy about their roles.

If there's any oft-mentioned candidate most likely to land the role by this point it does appear to be Daniel Craig. Hardly the classically handsome type we've come to expect from James Bond actors, Craig is friends with Bond producer Barbara Broccoli. According to THR, Broccoli wants Craig for it but her step-brother and fellow producer Michael G. Wilson doesn't. I've also heard that Craig and Casino Royale director Martin Campbell did not exactly hit it off when they had a meeting. Nevertheless, Craig is said to be among the new crop of candidates screentesting this week or next.

Another commonly voiced criticism of Craig as Bond, besides his looks, is that he would be out of his depth in the role. To counter that, however, one must view Layer Cake, which strongly suggests what he would bring to Casino Royale. Layer Cake follows a good bad guy who hardens into being a killer and crime boss. It is only by the end of the film that we really get a glimpse of what Craig might be like as Bond when we see his sharply dressed protagonist with a beautiful woman on his arm and a sports car awaiting him. He now has the confidence and machismo of Bond but then the movie ends. I saw Layer Cake precisely because Craig had been linked with the role of 007 and I came away impressed with him but not 100% sold. Craig seems to have a following amongst women so there is obviously something about him that perhaps male Bond fans like myself simply don't comprehend.

Karl Urban is now said to be a serioius contender after "The Final Four" bombed their screentests (thank God, as none of them seemed right for it). Urban was cast in the second Jason Bourne film as an assassin. While darkly handsome, he's a bit elfish-looking for Bond. The Kiwi native has appeared in other genre fare, such as the LOTR trilogy, Chronicles of Riddick and the forthcoming Doom. He's the right age, is a recognizable but not yet big name, and has proven himself adept at genre fare. But does Urban have the gravitas and flair needed for Bond? I'm not convinced that he does.

As for fan fave Clive Owen, well, what's left to say? By all accounts, he has turned the role down so why bother rehashing why he'd be great for it? That is, of course, unless he is just playing hard to get. It is possible that rumors of Casino Royale being delayed might be because the producers will wait until Owen's '06 schedule frees up. His next projects include Children of Men, Shoot 'Em Up and The Golden Age. Bond needs Owen more than the Oscar nominee needs Bond. Fans might just have to let it go, like they did with the "get Russell Crowe for Wolverine" campaign a few years back.

Speaking of Wolverine, there are mixed reports about Hugh Jackman. Some say he turned down Bond, while the THR feature says the powers-that-be thought he wasn't masculine enough for the role. Maybe this was just a smack at him if he did indeed reject their offer? Or maybe Jackman has done one too many stage musicals now. Regardless, he, too, seems to be out of the running.

Of the other new names mentioned as possible Bond contenders in the THR piece, the one that stands out the most to me is David Morrissey. At 41, Morrissey seems a little old for the age range the filmmakers are said to be seeking, and he doesn't quite look like Bond any more than Craig does. That said, there must be something about this guy that makes him a possibility. After all, Sharon Stone, who has veto power over her male leads, plucked Morrissey from relative stateside obscurity to play her love interest in Basic Instinct 2, a role offered to a slew of stars, including Brosnan. The last unknown foreign actor that Stone vouched for was none other than then-unknown Russell Crowe in The Quick and the Dead. Stone seems to have good judgment in her male leads.

While not the most complex role in the world, I disagree with the popular notion that all it takes to be James Bond is to look good in a tux and be able to speak with a British accent. Casting James Bond is not unlike casting Catherine Trammell in Basic Instinct: audiences have to believe that someone would want to sleep with this person despite the evidence that they will probably kill them. Bond must have that "fatal attraction" quality to him. Perhaps that's what all of the contenders so far have been lacking.

Each past Bond has brought something unique to the role despite having to meet the same basic requirements. Sean Connery was the "pure" Bond, the perfect brew of sexuality, brutality and style. He is the one all the successors seek to emulate. George Lazenby was noteworthy for, well, not embarrassing himself in the role and for only doing one film. Besides that, what else can be said of his turn? Roger Moore was the "Dean Martin" Bond, the light comedian who seemed like he'd rather be playing golf.

Moore's Bond was the aristocratic playboy cultivated to be a killer, whereas Connery was the killer cultivated to be a gentleman. Timothy Dalton was the "moral" Bond, reconceived for a post-AIDS and politically correct world. Dalton wouldn't kill a woman and would get to know her before bedding her. He didn't appear to drink or smoke, was jaded by his experience as a 00 agent, and adhered to a strict personal code.

Pierce Brosnan was a perfect fusion of all these Bond interpretations. He had the rugged brutality of Connery, the deft wit and cultivated manner of Moore, and the world-weariness and personal integrity of Dalton. Given that, no wonder finding Brosnan's successor appears so futile. What actor, unknown or otherwise, can one-up that at the tender age of 28? Perhaps nobody does it better.

#2 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:21 PM

Is Karl Urban the assassin that Bourne almost kills during the climactic car chase? If he is, well - he could fit into the Bond role quite well.

By the way - who was the real fourth candidate (Ewan Stewart obviously was not)?

#3 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:32 PM

Is Karl Urban the assassin that Bourne almost kills during the climactic car chase? If he is, well - he could fit into the Bond role quite well.

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That's right (and funnily enough, Owen plays a very similar role in the first Bourne). BTW, Csokas is the Treadstone agent Bourne drops in on in Germany in SUPREMACY.

If The Powers That Be were looking at people like Craig, Owen and Dougray Scott (and it seems that they were - I think CBn's "sources" confirmed Scott as a candidate a while back), then I'd be amazed if they didn't also consider Csokas and Urban.

As for Craig, I remain of the view that I'll be absolutely staggered if he ends up as Bond.

#4 marktmurphy

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:39 PM

Urban? Well, I've only seen him in Supremacy and saw nothing that screamed 'Bond' or even 'movie star'. He's a good supporting actor but I'm not sure about star. I may be wrong, I haven't seen much of him.

I can still only really see Jackman doing it as he's the only one with a screen personality; Owen just about but I haven't seen him do comedy (or charisma) yet. Craig would probably be okay but doesn't really suit the role and David Morrisey is way, way off the mark.
And if we go down this Brit-actors-a-little-too-serious route, we're left with the rest of the bunch from 'Our Friends in the North'. Eccleston isn't quite right and would run a mile at actually being commited to anything (hello Doctor! Goodbye Doctor!); Gina McGee has something not suitable I can't put my finger on; and Mark Strong.... well. Mark Strong. He has no hair, but that's never been a hinderance before. Have we discussed him?

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#5 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:47 PM

I can still only really see Jackman doing it as he's the only one with a screen personality; Owen just about but I haven't seen him do comedy (or charisma) yet.

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Not that there's a snowball's chance in hell that he'll be Bond, but check out CLOSER for evidence of Owen's comedy skills and charisma (and for a more Bondian performance, with action scenes, etc., see BEYOND BORDERS).

#6 H.M.Servant

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 03:26 PM

I don't really know Urban. I've seen the Bourne Supremacy but I don't remember him from it so I guess he didn't impress me. I remember he has been discussed in another thread and someone posted a pic and I thought he looked like Jack Black.

Personally I still favour Daniel Craig (after Clive Owen) for the part, regardless of what Martin Campbell thinks. I personally don't think he should be involved, or have a (final) say in the matter anyway.

Oh and David Morrissey? Ehh I'd rather have (Steven) Morrissey!

#7 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 03:59 PM

Personally I still favour Daniel Craig (after Clive Owen) for the part, regardless of what Martin Campbell thinks. I personally don't think he should be involved, or have a (final) say in the matter anyway.

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Well, I take it from this Stax Report article that Campbell and Craig got on badly on a personal level. And there's talk that Campbell wants an unknown for Bond, yet this would appear to be contradicted by reports that his first choice is Visnjic and that he also thinks Owen would be a terrific choice.

The Craig thing is bizarre, because, and if I remember correctly, he:

- Claims to have actually been offered Bond by Sony;

- Is said to be Broccoli's choice;

- Is said by CBn's "sources" to be in the running in a big way;

but he:

- Doesn't appear to have impressed Campbell and Michael G. Wilson;

- Would make for far and away the least conventionally good-looking of the Bonds (to put it kindly);

- Can look about 55 depending on the photo. From the Stax Report: The movie will track Bond's early days and the mission that transformed him into the cold, hard misogynist killer fans know. You simply can't have a fifty-something Brosnan as Bond in his early days. Or, I'd suggest, a guy who (despite being considerably younger) sometimes looks older than the fifty-something Brosnan as Bond in his early days.

- Seems a "serious" actor (a la Owen) who's getting a lot of attention and acclaim and works with people like Spielberg. Hardly needs Bond, then. Does Craig strike you as "someone unknown and hungry that will sign away the next decade of their career for a relative pittance in exchange for greater fame and opportunities down the line"? Surely he's one of those actors who "while not household names, can be choosy about their roles". At the very least, I'd find it hard to believe that Craig would want to do more than one or two turns as Bond, at the most.

Yet there's evidently some serious smoke to the Craig As Bond fire. I'd be more than happy to see him given a shot as 007, but boy oh boy oh boy would he be a brave (read: insanely risky) choice. Can't help feeling that, of the LAYER CAKE boys, the Bond people ought to have been pursuing director Matthew Vaughn for the job they gave to Campbell, not Craig for the job last held by Brosnan.

#8 tdalton

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:12 PM

I guess the question that should be posed is: How much input does Martin Campbell actually have on this decision? If he has a great deal of input (on an even level with Brocolli and Wilson), then Craig will not be Bond. If he doesn't, then Craig has a decent chance at landing the role.

I think it also depends on what Amy Pascal/Sony thinks of Craig, because she's the one that's bankrolling the film (I think).

#9 zencat

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:15 PM

- Claims to have actually been offered Bond by Sony;

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MGM, not Sony. That (apparently) happened before the take-over.

#10 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:21 PM

- Claims to have actually been offered Bond by Sony;

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MGM, not Sony. That (apparently) happened before the take-over.

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Ah, yes. I stand corrected. :) Still, offered Bond by the studio in charge at the time - not bad.

And here's a blast from the past (April), courtesy of AICN ("Someday, there will be no more rumors about James Bond casting. And on that glorious day, I will rejoice and sing and dance. Until then, I have a feeling we'll be printing about four of them a week forever." - Thank goodness we're no longer living in those bad old days, eh? :) ):

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#11 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:42 PM

It is possible that rumors of Casino Royale being delayed might be because the producers will wait until Owen's '06 schedule frees up.

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Even if this is true (and it seems a very big "if"), I think I'd rather they chose someone from the available pool of actors right now and just got on with it instead of delaying CASINO ROYALE in order to hold out for Owen (or indeed another "perfect natural successor to Brosnan" candidate). They should take a chance with Cavill, Craig, O'Lachlan or someone.

#12 MarJil

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:42 PM

I've mentioned Urban a few times in the past 3 months or so, but this is the first time I've seen him mentioned in an article as a serious contender. I wonder is this is part of the "wider net" that was referred to in an article last week. It doesn't seem that anyone has impressed TPTB enough yet and now maybe they are more seriously considering people they had glossed over before. Apparently Craig came the closest (maybe Hollywood Reporter was right about Wilson and Campbell being the only ones he failed to impress). Perhaps they are now giving serious screen tests to some who they passed over for these earlier for whatever reason, and maybe Urban is one of this new round of tests. I wouldn't dismiss him, as he may have Campbell (a fellow New Zealander) in his corner.

Regarding Urban, he has become my favorite dark horse candidate. He seems to have a great resume for the role, including the LOTR movies and of course Bourne. He's at that perfect stage at his career (just before he makes the leap to headlining movies) that they seem interested in. He's got a great voice for Bond, not too deep or high but very dignified. He's young enough to play the early in his career Bond that CR is supposedly written as. And he has an interesting look to him, with the hard, almost evil eyes that most of the Bond actors have had coupled with rounder face than we're used to as Bond. I found a video at the Doom movie website that has some interviews with him about his next movie. In it he has a haircut that is more in line with Bond, so you get a better look at what he might look like as Bond (in most of his movies that I've seen, he has rather odd hair styles, so it's hard to envision him as Bond). If you're interested, check out the website at www.doommovie.com and click on A Look Inside and you'll see the (short) interviews along with action from the Doom movie itself.

Edited by MarJil, 10 September 2005 - 05:06 PM.


#13 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:46 PM

I don't see Urban at all as a Craig or Owen type, and agree with the article that he's too elfin. Very petite features. Sure, he shaved his head, scowled and was reasonably convincing as a Russian assassin in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY, but he didn't need to do a lot. I think this is more like he'd look as Bond, albeit with slightly longer hair:

Posted Image

Not sold on him - he looks like he's in a-Ha (and I actually think Market looks tougher than that).

David Morrissey is a brilliant actor, but he's not Bond. He's stocky and Liverpudlian; not really a leading man, but a senstive bruiser type. Be a hell of a job to make him into someone as suave and cool and fit as Bond. The best I could find of him was this:

Posted Image

I'm amazed he's second billing in RISK ADDICTION (BI2). A certain Mr Dancy is also in that film - wonder if Miss Stone approved him, too? I'm sure I've gone mad, but 'pretty-boy' Hugh Dancy still looks to me a better candidate than anyone else going. He's better-looking than Craig, Owen, Morrissey, McMahon, O'Lachlan, Visjnic and most of the others being considered; he's young enough at 30 to do the job without having to put in a huge effort to convince audiences and the media (Cavill); his profile is not so large that he won't take the job (Jackman, McGregor, Owen, Butler), but he's got enough experience that he won't be a risk, and will garner some recognition as the chap from the BBC's DANIEL DERONDA, Galahad in KING ARTHUR and all those ads for Burberry with Kate Moss; he's British. He'd probably want the job. The only criterion on which he possibly falls down is toughness of the look. But this shot from DANIEL DERONDA is from three years ago:

Posted Image

Does he really look so effete? I think if you compare him to Cavill, Urban, Jackman, Purefoy, Gruffudd and others, this guy, now three years older than that and with the right haircut, looks every inch like he could be Ian Fleming's James Bond in what it sounds like CASINO ROYALE is shaping up to be. I know - another rant aobut Dancy, and everyone has a candidate they're blind about, perhaps. But I've never seen anyone mention Dancy in this kind of article and I do wonder why - he seems like a very obvious choice to me. I can't see where the risk would be - he'd clearly be commercially successful. Visjnic, Cavill, Morrissey, Craig - these are risky choices in comparison, I'd have thought.

#14 hrabb04

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:52 PM

How about Keith Urban?

#15 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:56 PM

I've mentioned Urban a few times in the past 3 months or so, but this is the first time I've seen him mentioned in an article as a serious contender.

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Same here, I think. Like I say, I'm surprised that he hasn't been discussed a lot more as a potential Bond. Granted, he's hardly the perfect candidate, but surely the same is true of people like Craig, O'Lachlan, Scott, Visnjic.... When you consider who else is being considered, Urban doesn't exactly seem out of place as a so-called contender.

I know I've seen Urban in LOTR, but I can't say I actually noticed him. He does a very good job in SUPREMACY, though, where he has next to no dialogue (and almost all of that is in Russian) and very little to do beyond chasing Bourne around and waving a gun. Not a lot to work with (by contrast, Owen's character in IDENTITY almost seems like a leading role), but he brings a lot of menace and presence to a part that could so easily have been utterly forgettable. (I seem to recall the director's commentary on the first Bourne DVD making the point that it's enormously hard for an actor who may be onscreen for only a few seconds and be required to do nothing more than walk somewhere to communicate a sense of danger and purpose as, say, a Treadstone assassin.)

#16 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:04 PM

Well, I watched the DOOM trailer thing, Marjil. Yes, that's a much better haircut, and yes, I don't think he'd be a terrible choice that would sink the series (I think Morrissey could do that, for example). He's a good-looking guy, dark, the right age, right kind of profile. Didn't make me want to see him as Bond, though. Okay, he could probably quite easily fix the accent - but I would just prefer to have someone who didn't have to do that. Who basically is Bond. I did like him in SUPREMACY, but I think it was partly because he had so little to do. Bond is in every frame, and you have to believe the guy is a suave British secret agent who loves his martinis. Yes, he could do it, and he'd be a safe enough choice. But I think he has the same 'flaw' as Dancy - too pretty - and he's lacking a few of Dancy's advantages. And Dancy ain't even in the running, it would seem.

That DOOM film looks rubbish, too!

#17 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:04 PM

I can't see where the risk would be - he'd clearly be commercially successful.

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Well, I don't see any particular grounds to say that he'd be a surefire smash as Bond (let alone a sounder choice from a commercial point of view than the other so-called candidates), but apart from that I agree with you on Dancy.

I don't see his perceived lack of toughness as a problem, especially as CASINO ROYALE is the story of a relatively wet-behind-the-ears young Bond who goes through various harrowing experiences that by the end of the story toughen him up into the ruthless, cold-blooded, virtually psychopathic professional assassin we all know and love ( :) ). And it's easier - as I think either David Schofield or yourself, spy, wisely pointed out once - to turn a "nancy boy" into a "brick outhouse" than to try and make a tough, mean, rugby-playing nightclub bouncer type into a sensitive smoothie. Look at Damon as Bourne, for instance. I'd never have believed that the star of GOOD WILL HUNTING would ever convince me as the most dangerous man in the world, but he did. On paper, Brad Pitt (the original choice for Bourne, I believe) would have been a much more appropriate choice, but Damon worked amazingly well. Is this what they call counterintuitive casting? At any rate, it can work brilliantly.

Dancy may well be a perfect choice for CASINO ROYALE.

#18 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:12 PM

:) Glad someone can see my point. There must be something wrong with him, though - why has nobody else thought of him? By commercially successful, I mean:

Visjnic: Lots of people throw up their arms. 'A Croatian as Bond?' It could easily affect the box office.
Cavill: 'A 22-year-old as Bond?'
Craig: 'A corpse as Bond?'
McMahon: 'A bald guy as Bond?'
Even Butler: 'A Glaswegian as Bond?'

Dancy is a middlingly known, very good-looking British actor. He could walk onto the stage come the day of the announcement and okay, I'll be fair, nobody is going to be punching the air, as they would if it was Owen or Jackman, or even to a lesser extent, Butler, Adrian Paul and others with fans who want their chap as Bond. But he would be a very smooth transition. He looks a lot like a younger Jackman, he is unimpeachably handsome, which many of these other guys aren't (and will put some people off if they're cast - the likes of Craig, Morrissey and even McMahon would, I think, have to bring audiences to the cinema despite their looks). He'd be just like the standard recasting we'd have expected, only he'd be five years younger. But it's an early mission, and he doesn't look so young. From Bangladesh to Rome, from London to LA, and from Langley Park to Memphis, nobody is going to have qualms about going to see this particular posh British actor they've probably seen in a few things in CASINO ROYALE. The only other candidates I can think of who would be as commercially safe are Jackman and Owen (who both seem to be out of it) and Brosnan. In my view, anyway. I'd be interested to hear what people's reactions would be were Dancy to be cast. :)

#19 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:19 PM

By commercially successful, I mean:

Visjnic: Lots of people throw up their arms. 'A Croatian as Bond?' It could easily affect the box office.
Cavill: 'A 22-year-old as Bond?'
Craig: 'A corpse as Bond?'
McMahon: 'A bald guy as Bond?'
Even Butler: 'A Glaswegian as Bond?'

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Ah, okay. Fair enough. Fancy Dancy it is, then, although the longhaired and foppish lead-singer-of-a-Britpop-band-circa-1996 look will have to go. I can't really see anything wrong with him. Presumably his acting's up to snuff?

As far as I can see at this moment, he'd probably be the safest choice for a Bourneified BOND BEGINS first mission reboot. He's no Hoxton Market, of course, but then we can't pin our hopes on those who are patently "too big for Bond", now can we?

#20 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:20 PM

Sorry - away from my Dancy thing. :) Interesting conclusion to the article, don't you think?

'What actor, unknown or otherwise, can one-up that at the tender age of 28?'

That '28' thing again. What makes the reporter pick that age - it's not mentioned elsewhere. Is it just a pick-up from the Hollywood Reporter piece (there's a lot of assumed info in the article, I find)? Or are the references to Bond being 28 in both pieces a clue that O'Lachlan (or some other actor that age) has been cast? Probably the former, but still...

#21 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:30 PM

There must be something wrong with him, though - why has nobody else thought of him?

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Hmmm.... he's not gay, by any chance? If so, I doubt that he'd be chosen for Bond. In an ideal world, of course, such things wouldn't matter, but....

I agree with you: strange that his name hasn't been bandied about more as a potential 007. If Cavill and O'Lachlan, why not Dancy?

Or maybe he's being advised that Bond would harm his career. :)

#22 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:35 PM

No, he's not gay. Could be that he's not interested. More likely EON never thought of him. Or perhas thought he looked too gay/effeminate/doesn't have that hit you you stay down thing. Which is kind of true, but I do subcribe to the Damon idea. Look at Urban in SUPREMACY. Then look at him here:

http://www.20six.de/.../Karl_Urban.jpg

If they're thinking of Urban, why not Dancy? He's British. I don't think a non-Brit shouldn't be cast (it has happened, after all), but I don't really see, with no natural successor, why they can't get one. There are other safe choices other than Dancy, in fact. Rupert Penry Jones would be a very safe pair of hands. Won't perhaps set the world alight. Won't be an Owen or a Craig or whatever. But he'd bring home the bacon. It's already enough to do this story, with a younger actor. Why make it extra risky by casting someone like Morrissey or Goran?

#23 MarJil

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:39 PM

Well, I don't see any particular grounds to say that he'd be a surefire smash as Bond (let alone a sounder choice from a commercial point of view than the other so-called candidates), but apart from that I agree with you on Dancy.

I don't see his perceived lack of toughness as a problem, especially as CASINO ROYALE is the story of a relatively wet-behind-the-ears young Bond who goes through various harrowing experiences that by the end of the story toughen him up into the ruthless, cold-blooded, virtually psychopathic professional assassin we all know and love ( :) ). And it's easier - as I think either David Schofield or yourself, spy, wisely pointed out once - to turn a "nancy boy" into a "brick outhouse" than to try and make a tough, mean, rugby-playing nightclub bouncer type into a sensitive smoothie. Look at Damon as Bourne, for instance. I'd never have believed that the star of GOOD WILL HUNTING would ever convince me as the most dangerous man in the world, but he did. On paper, Brad Pitt (the original choice for Bourne, I believe) would have been a much more appropriate choice, but Damon worked amazingly well. Is this what they call counterintuitive casting? At any rate, it can work brilliantly.

Dancy may well be a perfect choice for CASINO ROYALE.

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Dancy reminds me of Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits or Davy Jones of the Monkees, kind of a British pop star from the late 1960's vibe going there. He looks ok but he doesn't seem like he could possibly be tough. I personally think it works much better to take a tougher guy and bring out the smoothness (Bond should not be a "sensitive smoothie" ala Brosnan) than to bring out the toughness in a "nancy boy." One only needs to compare Connery to Brosnan to reinforce that opinion. I, for one, am tired of EON trying to convince me that some "nancy boy" is really Bond, as they have for 29 of the past 32 years (the Dalton era being the lone exception). I'd much rather have the tougher charismatic killer who can be smooth as a nice change of pace. Give me Urban or Butler or even Craig anyday over the same old same old.

#24 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:44 PM

More likely EON never thought of him.

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I very much doubt it. It seems they've been looking at plenty of young and relatively obscure actors (Cavill and O'Lachlan being two of the names we know about), so I'd find it extremely unlikely that Dancy would have escaped their attention. I reckon it's more than possible that he's been sounded out in some way.

As for whether he was interested/tested/signed as the new Bond a while back under a massive cloak of secrecy/etc., who can say?

#25 H.M.Servant

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:50 PM

If they're thinking of Urban, why not Dancy? He's British. I don't think a non-Brit shouldn't be cast (it has happened, after all), but I don't really see, with no natural successor, why they can't get one. There are other safe choices other than Dancy, in fact. Rupert Penry Jones would be a very safe pair of hands. Won't perhaps set the world alight. Won't be an Owen or a Craig or whatever. But he'd bring home the bacon. It's already enough to do this story, with a younger actor. Why make it extra risky by casting someone like Morrissey or Goran?

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I agree (partly) with you. I think if someone like Hugh Dancy or Rupert Penry Jones (he has the perfect name for a Bond actor IMO) and probably Ioan Gruffudd 2/3 years ago would be a pretty save bet and could do a good job.

But I would rather see someone like Craig or Owen or maybe Butler, I think some of the above actors would maybe ultimately be too bland (for the lack of a better word) for the role.



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Edited by H.M.Servant, 10 September 2005 - 06:59 PM.


#26 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:54 PM

[quote name='MarJil' date='10 September 2005 - 17:39']I, for one, am tired of EON trying to convince me that some "nancy boy" is really Bond, as they have for 29 of the past 32 years (the Dalton era being the lone exception).

#27 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 07:15 PM

I'm with you HM. I'd also rather see Craig than Dancy, personally speaking. But which would be a better bet commercially to play James Bond, do you think? The 30-year-old with some movie credits and a rising reputation, who looks like this:

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Or the 37-year-old with a slightly bigger profile, who looks like this:

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And then ask yourself if you want there to be a Bond 22.

#28 Loomis

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 07:51 PM

I'm with you HM. I'd also rather see Craig than Dancy, personally speaking. But which would be a better bet commercially to play James Bond, do you think? The 30-year-old with some movie credits and a rising reputation, who looks like this:

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Or the 37-year-old with a slightly bigger profile, who looks like this:

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And then ask yourself if you want there to be a Bond 22.

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Ah, but it's not as simple as that, spy - you've got to allow for variables, like:

- Yes, Dancy is far more handsome than Craig, and on the face of it a much safer choice for Bond (even in the absence of a Young Bond reboot, which would of course turn Dancy's youth into a major asset), but who's to say that the public wouldn't vastly prefer super-gritty Bond with Craig to "safe" business-as-usual Bond with Dancy?

- Joe Public may reject Dancy out of hand, not realising or caring that he was considered a better choice than Cavill, O'Lachlan, Stewart, Visnjic, etc. - instead of saying "Phew, good job that Sony and Eon managed to pick the best of a bad bunch and weeded out the really poor candidates like that Ewan chap", he'll just say "Who's this young upstart and why did they drop Brosnan for him?". OTOH, if offered Craig's Bond, he might say "Hmmm.... a very curious choice, but, still, it's Daniel Craig, the respected star of LAYER CAKE and Spielberg's new MUNICH - doubtless a chap capable of acting Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan under the table, so I'll definitely go and see CASINO ROYALE".

- Even with a "safe" Bond (and we'll say for the sake of argument that Dancy would be a safe Bond), CASINO ROYALE could turn out to be an absolutely rubbish film and kill the series. On reflection, that's hardly an argument for a "non-safe" Bond, is it? *Ahem* As you were.

ETA: Nah, actually, you're probably right, spy. Dancy seems the better bet commercially.

#29 spynovelfan

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 08:08 PM

Yes, it's a nice theory, but I suspect for every person who says "Hmmm.... a very curious choice, but, still, it's Daniel Craig, the respected star of LAYER CAKE and Spielberg's new MUNICH - doubtless a chap capable of acting Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan under the table, so I'll definitely go and see CASINO ROYALE" there will be several thousand people who will say "That guy? He's a good actor, but he'd dead ugly and not James Bond!" Many Americans, Indians, Belgians, Italians and Danes would have that view. Whereas I think with Dancy they might well think Why did they replace Brosnan for him? - but they will think that with pretty much anyone except for Owen and Jackman. That's what the public are like. If Dancy were in his late 30s rather than 30, I think it would be just the same as any recasting of Bond. And once cast, people have a lot more authority.

While I think there are some people - like you and like me - who would like to see a bit more grit in the Bond films, I think for the long-term survival of the series, they have to pick someone to play Bond for the next four or five films, not just for CASINO ROYALE. And they change the tone of the films - compare TWINE with DAD, for example. Craig could do a great CASINO ROYALE. And for his second and third films, when they want to go for something lighter and more conventional? It's not just Dancy - I know him, so it's easy for me to see him as Bond. There are dozens of British actors with similar profiles who could do this job and be very safe choices. Jack Davenport is mentioned by a lot of fans online, and by his mum's mate John Cleese. But I've never once seen him mentioned in an article as a candidate. Whyever not? At least as a *candidate*? Edward Atterton would be a very safe bet as Bond:

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James D'Arcy is 30 and would be sellable all over the world without a problem:

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The above-mentioned Rupert Penry-Jones is now the lead role in SPOOKS, and has just the right profile and look for it:

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There are others. But none of these chaps are ever mentioned in magazine articles about Brocolli, Wilson and Campbell's picks. Instead we have unknown Australian surfer dudes, 22-year-olds and Rab C Nesbitt. Connery was a coffin polisher - Craig looks like a Polish corpse. McMahon is a smarmy Australian TV actor and Visjnic is a Croatian playing a doctor on TV. They've both got masses of publicity - but not a peep for Mister Penry-Jones, who is British, the right age, and plays a secret agent on the box! And it's doing quite well in the States, that show, too. I just find it all very odd.

Just cast someone like Dancy or Davenport or Atterton or Penry-Jones, make the script what you've said you will, early mission, darker than usual, and so on - and do it. What the hell is the problem here?

#30 MarJil

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 08:17 PM

I can certainly see that viewpoint, and would welcome Owen and even Craig for that reason. A bit mystifed you place Urban in that category, though, and feel Dancy doesn't look tough enough. I think Dancy and Urban have quite a similar look. They're both pretty-boys.

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We've seen how pretty-boy Urban can look as an assassin - I'm sure the same would apply to Dancy. I was really just talking practicalities: give either of these guys a shave and a decent haircut and put them in a tuxedo and they would convince everyone in the world they were James Bond without a moment's hesitation. However much I'd like to see a Craig-style actor, I don't think that would be the best bet commercially, because they *might not* convince everyone they were Bond. A lot of people felt even Owen wasn't good-looking enough to play the part - people are very picky. Check out some of the comments about Craig's looks. McMahon's forehead. Visjnic's eyebrows. And so on.

Eon have told us they are making CASINO ROYALE, which is a pretty gritty story, that they want to keep that element, down to the last line of dialogue and the torture sequence, that they want it to be an early Bond mission, and so on. All of that is out of the standard Bond stuff, so I don't think it makes sense to also cast an actor who is a risk. I'd be inclined to have a darker screenplay along those lines, but cast an actor who can stick around for the next films and play them straight-up. You can't do that with Craig or anyone like him. You could do it with both Dancy and Urban. I just happen to think Dancy looks the part more - and I do think it's an advantage that he's an upper-class Brit. It would just make selling CASINO ROYALE that much easier.

Just my view - reading between the lines of your last post, you seem to be a little hostile about it. I'm not peddling an agenda or trying to run your guy Urban down. I'm really just saying what I think.

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No hostile intent, it's just that we've had the same thing for practically 30 years running with the pretty boy Bonds and I'd like a move back to the guys who you look at and think that they'd kill you as soon as look at you. Frankly, I'm mystified that you put Dancy into the same bracket as Urban, who has a stare that practically burns right through you. Dancy seems more of a puppy dog to me. I've seen him in two things that I know of, one being Emma Enchanted where he is like a pop star prince (and which sealed my impression of him as being another Davy Jones), and Arthur, where he makes Gruffudd and Owen seem like they are dripping with machismo. If what they want is another Brosnan type, then I guess Dancy is a viable option, but I categorize Urban as more of a killer type.