[Mister Asterix]

[mra]I have held to the contention that Scaramanga was the last great Bond Villain for quite some time now. For me, some have come close (Electra, Graves) some have even been great villains (Koskov, Kristatos), but not really the true throw-the-unsatisfactory-hench-in-with-the-piranha-type Bond Villain.

So then I am watching Moonraker the other day and it occurs to me that Hugo Drax may just be a great Bond Villain. You see, I don

[bryonalston]

I don't think that he's a good villain (he reminds me of an evil James Lipton) but he had some of the best lines of the series. Almost all of them seemed well thought-out and were delivered with pure venom. Drax was a servicable villan (better than Stromberg) but not great.

I disagree with your comment about Scaramanga being the last great Bond villain for a time. I feel that Kamal Khan, Elliot Carver and Max Zorin are equal while Franz Sanchez and Elektra King exceed Scaramanga (who was brought down by the Solex plot device.) Gustav Graves doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a Bond villain.

[Turn]

Not great, but very good IMO. I think maybe given MR's reputation as a "lesser" Bond film in some people's eyes gives them the impression there is little good about it, and perhaps the sillieness of the Jaws character overshadows Drax.

The only thing Drax doesn't do that could have raised his status in my eyes would have been to have done something violent himself to somebody rather than having somebody else do it. Miles away from the Strombergs or some of the other megalomaniacs who bark a lot of orders.

Agreed, Lonsdale

[doublenoughtspy]

I think he is a great villain who is often forgotten about because of the buffoonery of Jaws, etc.

He does have some of the best lines, has a lot of class, and wants to wipe out the entire human race. What more can one ask of a Bond villain?

[Mister Asterix]

bryonalston, on 26 August 2005 - 14:33, said:

I don't think that he's a good villain (he reminds me of an evil James Lipton) but he had some of the best lines of the series. Almost all of them seemed well thought-out and were delivered with pure venom. Drax was a servicable villan (better than Stromberg) but not great.

Fair argument. Perhaps on my last viewing I just began noticing that vemon throughout the performance.

bryonalston, on 26 August 2005 - 14:33, said:

I disagree with your comment about Scaramanga being the last great Bond villain for a time. I feel that Kamal Khan, Elliot Carver and Max Zorin are equal while Franz Sanchez and Elektra King exceed Scaramanga (who was brought down by the Solex plot device.) Gustav Graves doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a Bond villain.

[mra]You list many of my least favourite villains. Zorin has never done a thing for me. Kamal Kahn is just terrible. (And I

[Mister Asterix]

doublenoughtspy, on 26 August 2005 - 14:43, said:

I think he is a great villain who is often forgotten about because of the buffoonery of Jaws, etc.

He does have some of the best lines, has a lot of class, and wants to wipe out the entire human race.  What more can one ask of a Bond villain?

[mra]Not much more except maybe a bit more originality. Drax and Stromberg are the stereotypical Bond villains, and aren

[bryonalston]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='26 August 2005 - 12:47'][mra]You list many of my least favourite villains. Zorin has never done a thing for me. Kamal Kahn is just terrible. (And I

[Qwerty]

Hugo Drax is a great villain. Thanks to Christopher Wood's script, that character has some of the very best lines in the entire series.

"Look after Mr. Bond. See that some harm comes to him."

"Mr. Bond, you appear with the tedious inevitability of an unloved season."

Underrated though, sadly. I wish we'd hear his name along the likes of Blofeld and Goldfinger when you see Bond specials on TV and such.

[stromberg]

doublenoughtspy, on 26 August 2005 - 21:43, said:

I think he is a great villain who is often forgotten about because of the buffoonery of Jaws, etc.

He does have some of the best lines, has a lot of class, and wants to wipe out the entire human race.  What more can one ask of a Bond villain?

Great minds think alike

Had a time when I didn't like MR at all (something that I've had with almost any Bond movie), it was only for Drax that I watched the movie - which then led to me liking the entire movie much better than I used to do.

Agree that he's missing a certain "something", but Lonsdale indeed does a fantastic Job.

"You defy all my attempts to plan an amusing death for you. You're not a sportsman, Mr. Bond."

[chimera01]

I think that Drax was an awesome opponent for James Bond. Here's a man with a passion to recreate the world into his image, or one he likes. Along comes this laconic secret agent that takes trouble as it comes and solves it with great wit. Well Drax is the one who counters the agent with the same dry wittism while wishing the man a horrific death, time after time. he might be of the same mold as Curt from TSWLM but that one lacked any sense of Humor. (no puns on German humor)

He orders the most awesome excecution in MR, you see a terrified Corrine Clery running for her life being chased by those dogs. It chilled my bones then as it does now.

I find Drax a formidable foe, and still think he makes a lot of MR work.


Max Zorin was a wel enough villain played by a truly great Chris Walken, anybody else would have made him a laughing stock.

Kamahl Khan was an exotic villain ruled by greed, I found the Russian general much more crazy. As a couple they were good enough.

Most villains in PB's reign are left lacking in their tries to be evil. Som of the henchwomen were more convincing like Onatop and Miranda Frost.

[Red Grant 15]

Personaly I always thought Drax was a dull villian.

[bryonalston]

Red Grant 15, on 26 August 2005 - 14:29, said:

Personaly I always thought Drax was a dull villian.

He kind of is, which is why I said that he reminds me of James Lipton (the host of Inside The Actors Studio) He's very somber and calm all of the time, but hey, that's part of his appeal.

[Qwerty]

Red Grant 15, on 26 August 2005 - 17:29, said:

Personaly I always thought Drax was a dull villian.

Why is that?

[trumanlodge89]

bryonalston, on 26 August 2005 - 21:40, said:

Red Grant 15, on 26 August 2005 - 14:29, said:

Personaly I always thought Drax was a dull villian.

He kind of is, which is why I said that he reminds me of James Lipton (the host of Inside The Actors Studio) He's very somber and calm all of the time, but hey, that's part of his appeal.

i agree. he just isnt a villian thats very threatening....

[Red Grant 15]

The reason I think Drax was a dull villian was because he wasn't that threating, and he just didn't do anything that impressed me.

[Qwerty]

Red Grant 15, on 26 August 2005 - 18:37, said:

The reason I think Drax was a dull villian was because he wasn't that threating, and he just didn't do anything that impressed me.

Fair enough, to each his own.

[Bondian]

I thought Michael Lonsdale was quite wooden in Moonraker. Still, he wasn't as bad as Jonathan Pryce in Tomorrow Never Dies.

[Mr_Wint]

Yes, Hugo Drax is in my top 3-list of best villains (the other two are Dr No and Goldfinger). Drax has all the qualifications a really good Bond villain should have; cold, mysterious, self-confident and sophisticated.

Also, the first meeting between Bond and Drax is a great villain-moment. Both Lonsdale and Moore manage to find a perfect and somewhat weird balance between arrogance and humility. Drax dialogue is simply brilliant! A personal favourite: "...coincident with your country's one indisputable contribution to Western civilisation. Afternoon tea. "

[Genrewriter]

Funnily enough, I was talking with a buddy about this this afternoon (actually, our Bond talks resemble an interview with Quentin Tarantino more than anything else). I think Drax is a very good villain, just about on an equal level with Stromberg (not hard since they're pretty much the same damn guy). Lonsdale gives a good, low key performance loaded with menace and great dialogue. He's probably my third favorite of the 70's villains with only Scaramanga and Kananga beating him out.

[Pussfeller]

Michael Lonsdale is one of my favorite actors, so naturally Drax is one of my favorite villains. He's one of the last Bond villains to have class, but also to have quiet menace. And Much of it came from Lonsdale's expert performance.

I think a lot of Roger Moore's era is underrated, due to the silly extraneous bits. Drax is one of the most forgotten, and underrated, of the cinematic villains.

[Qwerty]

Mr_Wint, on 26 August 2005 - 19:10, said:

Also, the first meeting between Bond and Drax is a great villain-moment. Both Lonsdale and Moore manage to find a perfect and somewhat weird balance between arrogance and humility. Drax dialogue is simply brilliant! A personal favourite: "...coincident with your country's one indisputable contribution to Western civilisation. Afternoon tea. "

Without a doubt. There's the very slight tension. It works perfectly.

[Genrewriter]

Absolutely, I'd go so far as to say it might be the best villain intro in the series.

[Skin 17]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='26 August 2005 - 14:47'][quote name='bryonalston' date='26 August 2005 - 14:33']I don't think that he's a good villain (he reminds me of an evil James Lipton) but he had some of the best lines of the series. Almost all of them seemed well thought-out and were delivered with pure venom. Drax was a servicable villan (better than Stromberg) but not great.
[right][/right][/quote]

Fair argument. Perhaps on my last viewing I just began noticing that vemon throughout the performance.


[quote name='bryonalston' date='26 August 2005 - 14:33']I disagree with your comment about Scaramanga being the last great Bond villain for a time. I feel that Kamal Khan, Elliot Carver and Max Zorin are equal while Franz Sanchez and Elektra King exceed Scaramanga (who was brought down by the Solex plot device.) Gustav Graves doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a Bond villain.
[right][/right][/quote]

[mra]You list many of my least favourite villains. Zorin has never done a thing for me. Kamal Kahn is just terrible. (And I

This post has been edited by Skin 17: 27 August 2005 - 04:34 PM

[ACE]

bryonalston, on 26 August 2005 - 19:33, said:

I don't think that he's a good villain (he reminds me of an evil James Lipton)

LOL - good observation!

doublenoughtspy, on 26 August 2005 - 19:43, said:

I think he is a great villain who is often forgotten about because of the buffoonery of Jaws, etc.

He does have some of the best lines, has a lot of class, and wants to wipe out the entire human race.  What more can one ask of a Bond villain?

Agree.

Qwerty, on 26 August 2005 - 20:19, said:

Hugo Drax is a great villain. Thanks to Christopher Wood's script, that character has some of the very best lines in the entire series.

"Look after Mr. Bond. See that some harm comes to him."

"Mr. Bond, you appear with the tedious inevitability of an unloved season."

Underrated though, sadly. I wish we'd hear his name along the likes of Blofeld and Goldfinger when you see Bond specials on TV and such.

Agree, again.

Mr_Wint, on 26 August 2005 - 23:10, said:

Yes, Hugo Drax is in my top 3-list of best villains (the other two are Dr No and Goldfinger). Drax has all the qualifications a really good Bond villain should have; cold, mysterious, self-confident and sophisticated.

Also, the first meeting between Bond and Drax is a great villain-moment. Both Lonsdale and Moore manage to find a perfect and somewhat weird balance between arrogance and humility. Drax dialogue is simply brilliant! A personal favourite: "...coincident with your country's one indisputable contribution to Western civilisation. Afternoon tea. "

Agree, yet again.

I love the summary of Drax in the excellent book, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...2023666-1174043
describing Lonsdale's performance as "incredibly controlled and precise".
They go onto to transcribe the aforementioned great line punctuating it with a "nnf" as in

"You return - nnf - with the tedious inevitability of an unloved season."

Love the "nnf".

Drax on paper was another Blofeld/Stromberg-alike, push button Bond villain but is enlivened by Wood's amusing slightly overwrought dialogue and Lonsdale's unique line readings and stillness.

It is a pity the red-haired giant from the novel was not used but this character (while plundered in spirit for Gustav Graves) is still available for use in an Eon Bond.

ACE

This post has been edited by ACE: 27 August 2005 - 06:29 PM

[Moore Not Less]

I really like Michael Lonsdale's portrayal of Hugo Drax. In terms of physical presence, he doesn't present a threat. However, he is very intelligent and exudes authority. He is also a generally cold and unemotional man and his droll persona makes for some great humour. There's a real menace about Lonsdale's Drax, you believe that he will do whatever it takes to achieve his evil aim. Therefore, it's easy to see why Drax is feared and respected in equal measure by those under his command.

[Brian Flagg]

I think Drax is a near-great villain mainly because his droll, wooden delivery and persona are totally at odds with his scheme of world purification. The orchids from space-new dawn of man-new world order approach is just so nuts and over-the-top, especially coming from someone like dear Uncle Hugo, who seems so calm and collected all of the time. However, because Moonraker is overdone on so many levels, a seemingly placid baddie like Drax takes away from the insanity of his scheme and hurts his effectiveness as a "great villain" in my opinion. After many viewings of Moonraker, it finally dawned on me that Hugo Drax is probably the craziest villain Bond ever went up against.

Ahhh, it feels great to post again after three days of no power! (Courtesy of hurricane Katrina)

This post has been edited by Brian Flagg: 29 August 2005 - 12:25 AM

[Tarl_Cabot]

I absolutely think he's a great Bond villian because his motivation is more about snobbery than bloodthirst or greed; he wants to rid the earth of the flawed masses he feels are beneath his extra-ordianarily refined self.That's his whole attitude.That is interesting to me.Too bad he forgot that someone has to take out the garbage...that's the illogic of his plan but isn't it juicy?

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

based on the argument that Lonsdale brought more to the role than was written, you should surely appreciate Franz Sanchez for the same reason. Though a cut out of the typical 80s villian, his personal touch and skill made Sanchez one of the most frightening foes.

[Donovan]

I agree that Hugo Drax and Franz Sanchez are the two best film villains from the post-Connery era.

Although I kind of like Fleming's Drax a bit more, with the red hair and facial hair (not quite a beard) and barking laugh and scarred face. The film version is menacing and yes, Lonsdale and Moore have great unfriendly chemistry.

Here's a my quick ranking of the 1973 - 1989 Bond villains:

1. Hugo Drax - textbook megalomaniac, sees himself as a god, great dialogue
2. Franz Sanchez - textbook psychotic, loyalty is more important than money
3. Francisco Scaramanga - greatest assassin in world [BANG!]...er, make that 2nd greatest
4. Prince Kamal Khan - charismatic, makes things difficult for Bond
5. Maximillian Zorin - another psycho, but tame, Walken scarier in later films
6. Karl Stromberg - more of a villainous figure-head a character
7. Dr. Kananga - should have kept character of Mr. Big from book
8. Aris Kristatos - hardly memorable, a snake none-the-less
9. Brad Whitaker - a loser in life, not ideal villain material

This post has been edited by Donovan: 29 August 2005 - 01:49 AM

[tdalton]

Moore Not Less, on 27 August 2005 - 16:29, said:

I really like Michael Lonsdale's portrayal of Hugo Drax. In terms of physical presence, he doesn't present a threat. However, he is very intelligent and exudes authority. He is also a generally cold and unemotional man and his droll persona makes for some great humour. There's a real menace about Lonsdale's Drax, you believe that he will do whatever it takes to achieve his evil aim. Therefore, it's easy to see why Drax is feared and respected in equal measure by those under his command.

I agree with that, although I also agree with someone else who already said earlier in this thread that they preferred Fleming's Drax to the one that we saw in the film. Don't get me wrong, the film Drax was a good villain, certainly one of the better ones, but I would have liked to have seen it a bit closer to Fleming's description of the character.

Having said that, it's a shame that the character was wasted on such a poor Bond film.