43 replies to this topic

[zencat]

Qwerty is back with a look back at ICEBREAKER on the CBn main page.

[center] Looking Back: Icebreaker [4]John Gardner Back to top #2 Trident Trident Commander Veterans 2658 posts Location:Germany Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:34 PM Thats another fine article on Gardner. Thank you Qwerty! Although I never was fond of Gardners double/tripple crosses and found Bond not in an active role in this novel, it still is my favourite Gardner. Somehow he never again came nearer to Flemings style IMHO. Sadly, I must add! One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki. Back to top #3 Loomis Loomis Commander CMG Veterans 21862 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:35 PM Not a favourite of mine. Nazis, snow, unmemorable characters, lifeless prose, *yawn*, why the heck am I not reading a Fleming instead? More twists than a breakdancing battle in 1984, but very little of interest, and virtually nothing of Fleming's Bond. Poor. Back to top #4 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:35 PM One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki. It does? Back to top #5 Trident Trident Commander Veterans 2658 posts Location:Germany Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:54 PM I just checked it out. Berkley International edition December 1983. Bond is still in Helsinki sleeping with Paula Vacker (Hotel Inter-Continental). Paula is sedated while Bond sleeps. Then Kolya wakes him and tells him to come along at gunpoint. To Vantaa airport where Gl Edited by Trident, 03 May 2005 - 04:56 PM. Back to top #6 Sir Robert King Sir Robert King Cadet Crew 19 posts Location:G Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:56 PM One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki. It does? Yup! Icebreaker is by far my favourite Gardner novel. The MI6-CIA-KGB-Mossad cooperationwas a nice setup. Normaly I don Back to top #7 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:01 PM Doh! For all these years I've rememberd that as taking place in Heathrow. Maybe it's time for a re-read. Cheers, Sir Robert. Back to top #8 K1Bond007 K1Bond007 Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 4932 posts Location:Illinois Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:06 PM Actually Gardner's favorite is The Man From Barbarossa, not Icebreaker. It specifically states it on his website. Because I've been asked many times I should declare that I think the best of my Bonds is The Man from Barbarossa: it was also Glidrose's favourite, but when we handed it to the American publishers they screamed in agony - "This isn't the mixture as before," they shrieked. Which was exactly what I was aiming for. - Gardner's website Back to top #9 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:12 PM My fault again. I put that under triva (I remember him naming ICE his favorite pre TMFB). I zapped it. Thanks K1Bond007. Back to top #10 DLibrasnow DLibrasnow Commander Enlisting 16568 posts Location:Washington D.C.. USA Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:17 PM Great write-up Devin. I actually wrote John Gardner after reading ICEBREAKER when it came out and got a letter back from him - very nice guy. I'm surprised that TMFB is his favorite. Back to top #11 spynovelfan spynovelfan Commander CMG Discharged 5855 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:47 PM Can I say what I think of this, or do people know John Gardner personally? Back to top #12 Jim Jim Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 14266 posts Location:Oxfordshire Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:54 PM Mess. He's a traitor; no he isn't, she is; no she's not, this other guy is. And he's a Russian. Or is he? Yes he is. No he isn't he's Welsh (I may have given up at this point). Now she's a traitor too. ...or is she...? A dire portent of things to come. "Neo Nazis, hotel rooms, inexplicable twists, madness" - a seven word review of the entire thirty-eight (or however many there were) Gardner books. If you want a model Gardner book, though, if you want instant Gardner experience - this is it. Back to top #13 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:59 PM I remember the double and triple crosses threw me when I first read Icebreaker in '83. Back then, a double cross seemed a cheap device in James Bond adventure (are you reading this, P&W). But after 13 more Gardner books in which double cross becomes the name of the game, I re-read Icebreaker and actually thought it worked best in this book. Back to top #14 K1Bond007 K1Bond007 Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 4932 posts Location:Illinois Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:02 PM Can I say what I think of this, or do people know John Gardner personally? I'm sure he's used to criticism by now. Back to top #15 DLibrasnow DLibrasnow Commander Enlisting 16568 posts Location:Washington D.C.. USA Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:06 PM do people know John Gardner personally? Yes, they do. Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn. Back to top #16 K1Bond007 K1Bond007 Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 4932 posts Location:Illinois Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:06 PM I remember the double and triple crosses threw me when I first read Icebreaker in '83. Back then, a double cross seemed a cheap device in James Bond adventure (are you reading this, P&W). But after 13 more Gardner books in which double cross becomes the name of the game, I re-read Icebreaker and actually thought it worked best in this book. Thats one thing that the Bond series could use less of. It's so cliche now for Bond. GoldenEye, The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, and inevitably Casino Royale. Back to top #17 Jim Jim Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 14266 posts Location:Oxfordshire Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:09 PM do people know John Gardner personally? Yes, they do. Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn. Damn - cover blown! (Or is it?) See, just can't stop with those twists. Back to top #18 spynovelfan spynovelfan Commander CMG Discharged 5855 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:26 PM do people know John Gardner personally? Yes, they do. Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn. You had me going for a minute there. Actually, no, you didn't. Gardner doesn't really like that 'bloody Bond', and hasn't watched any of the films since he got the writing gig. Unless *he's* the one over there bashing Benson. But I haven't seen any posts saying 'An American? THEY GAVE MY JOB TO AN AMERICAN?' so I don't think so. I quite like parts of ICEBREAKER, but I hate that thing at the end where he thinks he's in Heaven. We'd never seen that one before, John! I also disliked the laziness of calling her Paula Vacker. That's not a Bond girl name, just trasnlating the word 'beautiful'! And by 1983, the neo-Nazi thing had been done in hundreds of thrillers - usually better than this. See THE QUILLER MEMORANDUM, for instance. Bash over. Book coming. Back to top #19 Qwerty Qwerty Commander RNVR Commanding Officers 85605 posts Location:New York / Pennsylvania Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:34 PM Hope you all liked this one. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of positivity for this book in particular. Be sure to discuss the later Gardner books too (in other according threads) so I can add some of those reviews in the later articles. Myself, I like Icebreaker. It's not the best by far as some others say, but it's definitely in his better half. Back to top #20 DLibrasnow DLibrasnow Commander Enlisting 16568 posts Location:Washington D.C.. USA Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:40 PM do people know John Gardner personally? Yes, they do. Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn. You had me going for a minute there. Actually, no, you didn't. Errr..I wasn't kidding. Gardner has been on CBn since at least the time that Zencat wrote that piece THE SILVER BEAST. Back to top #21 spynovelfan spynovelfan Commander CMG Discharged 5855 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:52 PM I'm amazed - and slightly scared. There I was thinking I could sound off all over the place. Turns out everywhere you look someone pops up and says 'I know Raymond Benson' or 'I worked at Glidrose' or 'I'm Peter Janson-Smith's lovechild' or even 'I'm John Gardner - no I'm not, it's a double-cross, yes I am, actually, I'm him, ahem, well, I first got this postcard in the summer of 1979...' Bugger. I've offended someone again, haven't I? Sorry Darren/Sean/Ian. Back to top #22 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:53 PM I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums? Back to top #23 Turn Turn Commander Veterans 6837 posts Location:Ohio Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:06 PM After hearing all the praise Icebreaker had on CBn, I have to say I was really underwhelmed when I read it last year. As others mentioned, double- and triple-crosses, Nazis and other stuff and Bond is almost a supporting character and non-factor in the whole thing. The sad part was everything seemed so transparent and I could predict everything that happened before it happened. There was no mystery. The ice torture was original and different, though. But by the ending when I just knew what would happen it just seemed like the perfect lame ending to an underwhelming read. Back to top #24 DLibrasnow DLibrasnow Commander Enlisting 16568 posts Location:Washington D.C.. USA Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:08 PM I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums? I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community. Looking forward to meeting him at the book signing on Friday. Back to top #25 Loomis Loomis Commander CMG Veterans 21862 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:13 PM I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums? I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community. From an interview I saw on the BBC's Newsnight a while back, and something I read subsequently somewhere (in The Daily Telegraph, I think), it seems Higson is very scathing about the 007 fan community. He appears to think people posting on sites like this one are "scary fanatics" who've reacted too harshly to "SilverFin". Given that Higson once went on Celebrity Mastermind with Bond as his specıalıst subject, he comes across a little like John Cork railing against the pasty-skinned and wifeless. Back to top #26 zencat zencat Commander GCMG Commanding Officers 25814 posts Location:Studio City, CA Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:17 PM I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums? I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community. From an interview I saw on the BBC's Newsnight a while back, and something I read subsequently somewhere (in The Daily Telegraph, I think), it seems Higson is very scathing about the 007 fan community. He appears to think people posting on sites like this one are "scary fanatics" who've reacted too harshly to "SilverFin". I thought Higson was talking about the initial fan reaction to the idea of a Young Bond series, not reaction to SilverFin itself...which has been, overall, pretty positive (at least here on CBn). Back to top #27 Loomis Loomis Commander CMG Veterans 21862 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:23 PM I thought Higson was talking about the initial fan reaction to the idea of a Young Bond series, not reaction to SilverFin itself...which has been, overall, pretty positive (at least here on CBn). Well, whatever. But you're probably right in bringing up the initial reaction to the idea of Young Bond - the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new. He certainly came across as very anti the Bond fansites (yeah, I know he gave you an interview for CBn). Back to top #28 marktmurphy marktmurphy Commander Veterans 9055 posts Location:London Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:50 PM the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new. Is he wrong? Back to top #29 Loomis Loomis Commander CMG Veterans 21862 posts Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:00 PM the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new. Is he wrong? Well, he's wrong if he thinks anyone on a fansite expressing reservations about the idea of Young Bond must be a frothing-at-the-mouth, Fleming-thumping old stick-in-the-mud. I don't deny that such people exist (and good luck to them, surely - after all, we all have our own likes and dislikes when it comes to Bond; I'm sure Higson does, too), but it would be wrong to tar all fansite members (or even all members of the anti-Young Bond brigade, or all people who dislike "SilverFin") with the same brush. Back to top #30 JKD68 JKD68 Midshipman Crew 93 posts Location:USA Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:20 PM I would say some of Gardner's best writing is in Icebreaker. Especially the chapter, Silver vs. Yellow. Really great story telling IMO. 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[Trident]

Thats another fine article on Gardner. Thank you Qwerty!
Although I never was fond of Gardners double/tripple crosses and found Bond not in an active role in this novel, it still is my favourite Gardner. Somehow he never again came nearer to Flemings style IMHO. Sadly, I must add!

One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki.

[Loomis]

Not a favourite of mine. Nazis, snow, unmemorable characters, lifeless prose, *yawn*, why the heck am I not reading a Fleming instead? More twists than a breakdancing battle in 1984, but very little of interest, and virtually nothing of Fleming's Bond. Poor.

[zencat]

One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki.

It does?

[Trident]

I just checked it out. Berkley International edition December 1983. Bond is still in Helsinki sleeping with Paula Vacker (Hotel Inter-Continental). Paula is sedated while Bond sleeps. Then Kolya wakes him and tells him to come along at gunpoint. To Vantaa airport where Gl

Edited by Trident, 03 May 2005 - 04:56 PM.

[Sir Robert King]

One small thing: the final showdown takes place in Vantaa airport, Helsinki.

It does?

Yup!

Icebreaker is by far my favourite Gardner novel. The MI6-CIA-KGB-Mossad cooperationwas a nice setup. Normaly I don

[zencat]

Doh! For all these years I've rememberd that as taking place in Heathrow. Maybe it's time for a re-read. Cheers, Sir Robert.

[K1Bond007]

Actually Gardner's favorite is The Man From Barbarossa, not Icebreaker. It specifically states it on his website.

Because I've been asked many times I should declare that I think the best of my Bonds is The Man from Barbarossa: it was also Glidrose's favourite, but when we handed it to the American publishers they screamed in agony - "This isn't the mixture as before," they shrieked. Which was exactly what I was aiming for. - Gardner's website

[zencat]

My fault again. I put that under triva (I remember him naming ICE his favorite pre TMFB). I zapped it. Thanks K1Bond007.

[DLibrasnow]

Great write-up Devin. I actually wrote John Gardner after reading ICEBREAKER when it came out and got a letter back from him - very nice guy. I'm surprised that TMFB is his favorite.

[spynovelfan]

Can I say what I think of this, or do people know John Gardner personally?

[Jim]

Mess. He's a traitor; no he isn't, she is; no she's not, this other guy is. And he's a Russian. Or is he? Yes he is. No he isn't he's Welsh (I may have given up at this point). Now she's a traitor too.

...or is she...?

A dire portent of things to come. "Neo Nazis, hotel rooms, inexplicable twists, madness" - a seven word review of the entire thirty-eight (or however many there were) Gardner books. If you want a model Gardner book, though, if you want instant Gardner experience - this is it.

[zencat]

I remember the double and triple crosses threw me when I first read Icebreaker in '83. Back then, a double cross seemed a cheap device in James Bond adventure (are you reading this, P&W). But after 13 more Gardner books in which double cross becomes the name of the game, I re-read Icebreaker and actually thought it worked best in this book.

[K1Bond007]

Can I say what I think of this, or do people know John Gardner personally?

I'm sure he's used to criticism by now.

[DLibrasnow]

do people know John Gardner personally?

Yes, they do.

Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn.

[K1Bond007]

I remember the double and triple crosses threw me when I first read Icebreaker in '83. Back then, a double cross seemed a cheap device in James Bond adventure (are you reading this, P&W). But after 13 more Gardner books in which double cross becomes the name of the game, I re-read Icebreaker and actually thought it worked best in this book.

Thats one thing that the Bond series could use less of. It's so cliche now for Bond. GoldenEye, The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, and inevitably Casino Royale.

[Jim]

do people know John Gardner personally?

Yes, they do.

Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn.

Damn - cover blown!

(Or is it?)

See, just can't stop with those twists.

[spynovelfan]

do people know John Gardner personally?

Yes, they do.

Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn.

You had me going for a minute there. Actually, no, you didn't. Gardner doesn't really like that 'bloody Bond', and hasn't watched any of the films since he got the writing gig. Unless *he's* the one over there bashing Benson. But I haven't seen any posts saying 'An American? THEY GAVE MY JOB TO AN AMERICAN?' so I don't think so.

I quite like parts of ICEBREAKER, but I hate that thing at the end where he thinks he's in Heaven. We'd never seen that one before, John! I also disliked the laziness of calling her Paula Vacker. That's not a Bond girl name, just trasnlating the word 'beautiful'! And by 1983, the neo-Nazi thing had been done in hundreds of thrillers - usually better than this. See THE QUILLER MEMORANDUM, for instance.

Bash over. Book coming.

[Qwerty]

Hope you all liked this one. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of positivity for this book in particular. Be sure to discuss the later Gardner books too (in other according threads) so I can add some of those reviews in the later articles.

Myself, I like Icebreaker. It's not the best by far as some others say, but it's definitely in his better half.

[DLibrasnow]

do people know John Gardner personally?

Yes, they do.

Also, I don't think I'm really breaking some major news here by pointing out that Gardner himself reads and is on CBn.

You had me going for a minute there. Actually, no, you didn't.

Errr..I wasn't kidding. Gardner has been on CBn since at least the time that Zencat wrote that piece THE SILVER BEAST.

[spynovelfan]

I'm amazed - and slightly scared. There I was thinking I could sound off all over the place. Turns out everywhere you look someone pops up and says 'I know Raymond Benson' or 'I worked at Glidrose' or 'I'm Peter Janson-Smith's lovechild' or even 'I'm John Gardner - no I'm not, it's a double-cross, yes I am, actually, I'm him, ahem, well, I first got this postcard in the summer of 1979...'

Bugger. I've offended someone again, haven't I? Sorry Darren/Sean/Ian.

[zencat]

I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums?

[Turn]

After hearing all the praise Icebreaker had on CBn, I have to say I was really underwhelmed when I read it last year. As others mentioned, double- and triple-crosses, Nazis and other stuff and Bond is almost a supporting character and non-factor in the whole thing.

The sad part was everything seemed so transparent and I could predict everything that happened before it happened. There was no mystery. The ice torture was original and different, though. But by the ending when I just knew what would happen it just seemed like the perfect lame ending to an underwhelming read.

[DLibrasnow]

I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums?

I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community.
Looking forward to meeting him at the book signing on Friday.

[Loomis]

I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums?

I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community.

From an interview I saw on the BBC's Newsnight a while back, and something I read subsequently somewhere (in The Daily Telegraph, I think), it seems Higson is very scathing about the 007 fan community. He appears to think people posting on sites like this one are "scary fanatics" who've reacted too harshly to "SilverFin".

Given that Higson once went on Celebrity Mastermind with Bond as his specıalıst subject, he comes across a little like John Cork railing against the pasty-skinned and wifeless.

[zencat]

I don't forget Charlie Higson says he reads the forums?

I had read that he was keeping up with the reaction to his book in the 007 fan community.

From an interview I saw on the BBC's Newsnight a while back, and something I read subsequently somewhere (in The Daily Telegraph, I think), it seems Higson is very scathing about the 007 fan community. He appears to think people posting on sites like this one are "scary fanatics" who've reacted too harshly to "SilverFin".

I thought Higson was talking about the initial fan reaction to the idea of a Young Bond series, not reaction to SilverFin itself...which has been, overall, pretty positive (at least here on CBn).

[Loomis]

I thought Higson was talking about the initial fan reaction to the idea of a Young Bond series, not reaction to SilverFin itself...which has been, overall, pretty positive (at least here on CBn).

Well, whatever. But you're probably right in bringing up the initial reaction to the idea of Young Bond - the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new. He certainly came across as very anti the Bond fansites (yeah, I know he gave you an interview for CBn).

[marktmurphy]

the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new.

Is he wrong?

[Loomis]

the impression I got was that Higson thinks the "scary fanatics" are ultrahardcore Fleming purists who loathe the notion of anything new.

Is he wrong?

Well, he's wrong if he thinks anyone on a fansite expressing reservations about the idea of Young Bond must be a frothing-at-the-mouth, Fleming-thumping old stick-in-the-mud. I don't deny that such people exist (and good luck to them, surely - after all, we all have our own likes and dislikes when it comes to Bond; I'm sure Higson does, too), but it would be wrong to tar all fansite members (or even all members of the anti-Young Bond brigade, or all people who dislike "SilverFin") with the same brush.

[JKD68]

I would say some of Gardner's best writing is in Icebreaker. Especially the chapter, Silver vs. Yellow. Really great story telling IMO.