62 replies to this topic

[Seannery]

There are still a lot that we don't know about the search for Bond #6. But we have gotten some facts from Cbn that they have gathered from their sources. Of course no source is infallible unless it is Michael or Babs BUT so far this seems to be the most reliable info we have.

What we have found out from the Cbn sources is these things at this moment--the rumors of Pierce coming back are false, Clive Owen is not being considered, Daniel Craig is not a candidate, James Purefoy is not a candidate, Dougray Scott is a candidate, Julian McMahon is a candidate and there are other candidates being considered that basically aren't being talked about--at least a portion of them essentially unknowns under the radar.

What can we gather from the best facts that we have at the moment? First of all and most fundamentally we have candidates that are either unknown and under the radar or at best semi-known actors. No big names ala Jackman or McGregor while also no hot names ala Owen. What do big and hot names have against them for Eon's search for the next Bond? Big names have two problems first they may be too large for Bond and therefore have associations that may conflict with the Bond persona. Secondly they could be very hard to control for Eon. Eon hates that ala Connery and the late days of Pierce. Hot names like Owen who aren't widely known yet also have the problem of being hard to control because they have lots of other options and offers and don't need Bond. So from what facts we have gathered and Eon's history it is looking unlikely any big names or hot, rising names will be considered seriously for Bond.

Which leaves us with either semi-known actors such as Dougray Scott or Julian McMahon or the unknowns that Zencat and Cbn state are on the candidate list. But what kind of semi-known actors? Compare the two semi-knowns seen as candidates--Scott and McMahon--to the two semi-knowns who are not candidates--Craig and Purefoy. What is the difference? This goes back to what I have theorized at an earlier date and what Garth Pearce a writer on all things Bond has also asserted. Pearce went on to show that the history of Bond box office shows that the international box office has been steady as a rock while the big chunk that is the hyper-competive USA market has been much more unreliable and shaky therefore making it absolutely vital to especially appeal to it.

Pearce in his article on this therefore floated Ioann Gruffudd as a viable candidate because of his Hornblower series had established a beachhead in the USA--a marketing in(the Hornblower guy as Bond) and media recognition and a little bit public recognition. Scott and McMahon from either movies or TV also have some modest recognition in marketing, media and public in the USA--enough to establish an easier entrance into that vital market. Craig and Purefoy on the otherhand are too much like Dalton and Lazenby in the USA. Very, very little known never starring or co-starring in a TV show or movie there that made any impact in general. They would be an uphill sell job in the shaky USA market and Eon can't afford that. As Garth Pearce stated it's not necessary to be a big name to sell in the USA BUT you need to have already made some modest impact that can be built upon like Roger Moore had and once modest fame has been achieved it's an asset that stays for quite some time and which media and marketing can tap later on--it's in the collective societal memory. Gerald Butler, Adrian Paul among others would fit in this category. Clive Owen would fit in this semi-known category in the USA where he is just beginning to get some notice BUT the fatal fault for him for Eon would be he's too hot to handle and control. On top of that he's a serious and demanding type actor who would even be doubly hard to control hence Eon's disinterest according to Cbn.

Which leaves the unknown candidates. I would propose this would be a special category which Craig and Purefoy would almost fit with regards to the shaky USA market except that I would submit they are too old and too late to be sold to the USA as a hot new unknown. I believe that an unknown candidate can only work for Bond if they are sold in the hyper-competive USA market as the hot new actor with an accent like at one time Mel Gibson, Colin Farrell, Russell Crowe and others were. And Sean Connery. Lazenby could have been here if he was more of an actor in the 60's but alas he wasn't. So I believe the unknown and under the radar candidates will be youngish from the late 20's to early 30's. An older unknown with no beachhead in the USA would very much more likely provoke yawns and be too risky an uphill climb for Eon. But to get someone in the hot young Connery, Gibson mode could create a buzz.

So that is what I see from the facts we have so far. No big or hot names for Bond. Semi-knowns who have some modest connections to the USA market. Unknowns young enough to be sold as the hot young actor with the accent in the USA. And of course it goes without saying that whoever they pick must also be well cast as Bond BUT in addition to that Eon has to make sure they are potentially saleable to the shaky USA market. The easier that is, the better. But Eon also wants to have control so big names and hot names are likely out. Of course there can still be twists and turns BUT from the evidence that we have so far this is my humble interpretation of it.

[zencat]

Good summation, Seannery.

Not to throw a monkey wrench in things, but I'm starting to think Owen can't be ruled out entirely. This isn't coming from any source -- the last thing I heard Owen was not in the mix -- it's just a gut feeling I have. Owen was dismissed early as being "too old" for what they wanted to do in CR, but I'm having trouble accepting that after the explosion of popularity and almost Pierce Brosnan-like association to the part they wouldn't go back and consider him before taking that final leap, even if it meant jettisoning the "first mission" idea (which I think is lame anyway). I can just hear Sony saying to Eon

[Seannery]

[quote name='zencat' date='12 April 2005 - 18:01']Good summation, Seannery.

Not to throw a monkey wrench in things, but I'm starting to think Owen can't be ruled out entirely. This isn't coming from any source -- the last thing I heard Owen was not in the mix -- it's just a gut feeling I have. Owen was dismissed early as being too old for what they wanted to do in CR, but I'm having trouble accepting that after the explosion of popularity and almost Pierce Brosnan-like association to the part they wouldn't go back and consider him before taking that final leap, even if it meant jettisoning the "first mission" idea (which I think is lame anyway). I can just hear Sony saying to Eon

[Loomis]

Of course, it's possible Clive turned them down already and that's why he isn't a contender?

Yep, that's seems very possible. To go back to a discussion we had a while back, zen, if Owen has the choice of A. Bond, with the possibility of typecasting and a relatively ho-hum salary without "points", and B. working with Sofia Coppola/Spielberg/Tarantino/whoever, doing POSEIDON ADVENTURE or similar, and earning big bucks with points, keeping that critical acclaim thing going on and doing "interesting and varied" work.... well, it's a no-brainer, innit?

I'd find it extremely easy to believe that the Bond people have been begging Owen, but he's turned 'em down, having bigger and more "serious actor"-type fish to fry.

[Skudor]

Great summary and interesting thoughts.

I do, however, disagree with the contention that the new Bond has to be even remotely famous. James Bond is the star here. People will flock to the movies to see the new guy, and if he's a good fit they'll keep pooring in. To put it in an extreme contrast, you could cast Adam Sandler and the movie would flop as, presumably, word of mouth and film reviews would slate his performance. By contrast, an unknown who's widely seen as a good fit for the role would generate positive publicity that would pull in the crowds.

Once Mr New Bond is announced there will be plenty of free publicity, which will be pushed further by the Eon/MGM/Sony. He'll be a star overnight.

[zencat]

I do, however, disagree with the contention that the new Bond has to be even remotely famous. James Bond is the star here. People will flock to the movies to see the new guy, and if he's a good fit they'll keep pooring in. To put it in an extreme contrast, you could cast Adam Sandler and the movie would flop as, presumably, word of mouth and film reviews would slate his performance. By contrast, an unknown who's widely seen as a good fit for the role would generate positive publicity that would pull in the crowds.

Once Mr New Bond is announced there will be plenty of free publicity, which will be pushed further by the Eon/MGM/Sony.  He'll be a star overnight.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the studio can point to George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton as examples of how that isn't necessarily the case. Heck, if all it took was publicity to create a movie star, then shouldn't JLo be the biggest movie star in the world (instead of instant box office death)? You can certainly use publicity to launch an actor, but the audience will still tell you who they will actually pay to see and who they won't. Maybe people will flock to see the new guy once, but if he doesn't click, they won't come back. And the franchise is more improtant than any single movie. Going with an unknown Bond is a gamble, and studios don't gamble if they don't have to, especially when what's at stake is the most successful cinema franchise in history.

Of course, producers do sometimes gamble on their instincts, and Bond is a producer run franchise, so

[Seannery]

[quote name='Skudor' date='12 April 2005 - 18:41']Great summary and interesting thoughts.

[Loomis]

My hunch would be Eon doesn't want an actor they would have a hard time controlling--rising, serious Owen would seem to be very much in that category.

Good point, Seannery.

zen tells us that he knows of names "in the mix" who haven't been mentioned on the net as possible Bond candidates, in which case I imagine they must be unknowns or as close to unknown as you can get.

Either that, or they're such radical departures from the "Bond image" as to have flown under the fan/media radar for being so blatantly unsuitable. Sylvester Stallone? James Gandolfini? Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys? The mind boggles.

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]Just my personal opinion, but the more unknown a guy is the better fit he has to be. And personally I

[spynovelfan]

I actually agree with you, Seannery. I think that's very possible. Of course, it's a thin line between some of these people. You argue that Craig is a little too unknown in the US, whereas Butler isn't, for example. Toss-up, really: Craig was in TOMB RAIDER and ROAD TO PERDITION, Butler in PHANTOM. I'd say, by your criteria, both are out. I think US TV may well be the key to it: it means you can have an actor who an American audience will recognise, but at the same time one who hasn't yet gotten so big they won't take the part. So who does that leave us with? I've tried to be impartial, and pick the most 'Bond' pictures I could find.

Julian McMahon:

British-born Australian actor on US TV in NIP TUCK, playing a charming, debonair, ruthless plastic surgeon (I think - I've never seen the show). About to appear in THE FANTASTIC FOUR, but other than that hasn't really had any big film work. Yet.

Ioan Gruffudd:

Welsh actor, starred as Hornblower in the TV series of the same name. Did rather well. Played opposite Clive Owen in KING ARTHUR, and is about to be in THE FANTASTIC FOUR.

Clive Robertson:

British actor, starring in SUNSET BEACH as the 'mysterious and charming' Ben Evans. Looks a little like a younger Brosnan. And he even has a comma of hair.

Adrian Paul:

British actor, starred in THE HIGHLANDER TV series and film. Has played secret agents in several B-movie affairs. Can look a lot like a younger Connery.

Matthew MacFadyen:

Lead role in the BBC series SPOOKS, shown as MI-5 in the US. Plays a British secret agent in it.

Hugh Dancy:

Broke through in 2000 in Hallmark/Turner's TV adaptation of DAVID COPPERFIELD, in which he played the title role. Has since had secondary roles in several big films, including BLACK HAWK DOWN and KING ARTHUR (Galahad). Lead role in Disney's ELLA ENCHANTED, and shares lead with John Hurt in next year's SHOOTING DOGS. Currently the face of Burberry in ads with Kate Moss. Looks a little like a younger Hugh Jackman.

Alexis Denisof:

American actor, but lived in the UK for 13 years and trained at LAMDA. Very convincing British accent, as can be seen in his role as Wesley in BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER and, in a much beefed up form, ANGEL.

Lloyd Owen:

British actor known to American audiences for his role in the YOUNG INDIANA JONES TV series, in which he plays Indiana's father.

Anthoyn Stewart Head:

At 51, a long shot. But this British actor is very well-known to US viewers as suave and charming British 'Watcher' Giles in BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. Also played a caddish rogue agent very effectively in an episode of MI-5.

Edited by spynovelfan, 12 April 2005 - 07:14 PM.

[THORP_APPS]

Those are excellent photos spynovelfan, looking the Julian McMahon photo really looks bondish to me.

[Seannery]

Thanks spynovelfan Yeah we do agree for once--that is a nice change of pace Just so the world won't end i'll add that yes it's a bit of a thin line between Daniel Craig and Gerald Butler BUT I think not too thin a line. Craig has gotten supporting film roles that hasn't garnered much notice while Butler has gotten leading roles and more public notice in the press which is vital. He's been on Jay Leno's Tonight show, Crsig Ferguson's Late, Late Show and through the last 5 years or so i've seen a number of print articles on him. BUT Craig has had virtually none of this. Butler would be more akin to Dougray Scott's modest film fame giving him just enough recognition to build upon.

[zencat]

Good list, spynovelfan. Athena and I were just talking about how much we both like Matthew MacFadyen and how he'd make a great "young Bond." We're big fans of MI5. Weird you don't hear his name more as part of the rumor mill.

[Loomis]

Good list, spynovelfan. Athena and I were just talking about how much we both like Matthew MacFadyen and how he'd make a great "young Bond." We're big fans of MI5. Weird you don't hear his name more as part of the rumor mill.

A little hint there, zen?

I know nothing about this MacFayden chap, but I don't think that pic of spy's does him too much justice. Looks a bit like a "regular bloke", no? Nothing special in the fizzog department. Yeah, he's white and young and (I'm guessing) British, but as we all know there's a little bit more to Bond than that.

[spynovelfan]

[quote name='Seannery' date='12 April 2005 - 19:22']Thanks spynovelfan

Edited by spynovelfan, 12 April 2005 - 07:28 PM.

[Athena007]

Matthew MacFadyen:

Lead role in the BBC series SPOOKS, shown as MI-5 in the US. Plays a British secret agent in it.

Purrrow! I think he would make a spectacular James Bond!

Moore was the Saint before he became 007.
Brosnan was Remington Steele before he became 007.
MacFadyen was Tom Quinn... before he... oh ya, that hasn't happened yet.

[zencat]

Good list, spynovelfan. Athena and I were just talking about how much we both like Matthew MacFadyen and how he'd make a great "young Bond." We're big fans of MI5. Weird you don't hear his name more as part of the rumor mill.

A little hint there, zen?

LOL.

I knew someone would say that.

No. That wasn't a hint. He's just a guy who, IMO, might be a good choice creatively.

[Seannery]

Matthew MacFadyen:

Lead role in the BBC series SPOOKS, shown as MI-5 in the US. Plays a British secret agent in it.

Purrrow! I think he would make a spectacular James Bond!

Moore was the Saint before he became 007.
Brosnan was Remington Steele before he became 007.
MacFadyen was Tom Quinn... before he... oh ya, that hasn't happened yet.

Never seen him act so I can't fully judge him though this picture doesn't strike me as particularly Bondian. Perhaps his acting and persona would compensate.

[spynovelfan]

Yes, MacFadyen does look like a 'normal' bloke. Can do ruthless, though. I think EON look at a lot of TV actors, and the ones who don't quite make it have supporting roles. Sean Bean was proably best known to Americans for SHARPE. Toby Stephens had played the Great Gatsby on American TV. I imagine they had him pegged as a potential successor:



That's from CAMBRIDGE SPIES, which showed on BBC America. Also in that, as one of the four leads, was Rupert Penry Jones. He had a starring role in MI-5 in the last series, and strikes me as being more suitable for Bond than MacFadyen (or Stephens, who despite his genes simply can't act):



Here's a better picture of MacFadyen:

Edited by spynovelfan, 12 April 2005 - 07:41 PM.

[Seannery]

[quote name='spynovelfan' date='12 April 2005 - 20:27'][quote name='Seannery' date='12 April 2005 - 19:22']Thanks spynovelfan

[Loomis]

Good list, spynovelfan. Athena and I were just talking about how much we both like Matthew MacFadyen and how he'd make a great "young Bond." We're big fans of MI5. Weird you don't hear his name more as part of the rumor mill.

A little hint there, zen?

LOL.

I knew someone would say that.

No. That wasn't a hint.

Yeah, I didn't think it was, as I remember reading MacFayden mentioned as a possible Bond from time to time.

spy, yes, that other pic of MacFayden looks better.

Just by-the-by, but what do people think of Jack Davenport's chances?

[spynovelfan]

Well, I tried to put a mix in there, Seannery. Hugh Dancy's a hot young actor with a posh British accent; he's 29. I think hot young actors who aren't in massive films already (as Orlando Bloom is) pretty much all have to come from big TV roles that have shown in the US, or smaller roles in big movies.

Incidentally, Clive Owen will be familiar to at least some American viewers from the TV series SECOND SIGHT, which played on BBC America a couple of years ago.

[Stephenson]

Matthew MacFadyen:

Lead role in the BBC series SPOOKS, shown as MI-5 in the US. Plays a British secret agent in it.

Purrrow! I think he would make a spectacular James Bond!

Moore was the Saint before he became 007.
Brosnan was Remington Steele before he became 007.
MacFadyen was Tom Quinn... before he... oh ya, that hasn't happened yet.

Never seen him act so I can't fully judge him though this picture doesn't strike me as particularly Bondian. Perhaps his acting and persona would compensate.

I've seen some pictures where he loks very cool. In this one he looks like DAve Matthews.

[Seannery]

Good list, spynovelfan. Athena and I were just talking about how much we both like Matthew MacFadyen and how he'd make a great "young Bond." We're big fans of MI5. Weird you don't hear his name more as part of the rumor mill.

A little hint there, zen?

LOL.

I knew someone would say that.

No. That wasn't a hint.

Yeah, I didn't think it was, as I remember reading MacFayden mentioned as a possible Bond from time to time.

spy, yes, that other pic of MacFayden looks better.

Just by-the-by, but what do people think of Jack Davenport's chances?

I think Davenport has a shot as the hot young guy with an accent. Actors in that category can be unknown in the USA and still have the potential to cross over by riding the well worn trough that others have in the past such as Gibson, Crowe, Connery, Farrell. I think he has the charisma and looks to possibly pull that off and be able to create a buzz and interest to Bond. I have to see more of him acting to fully judge that BUT what from what i've seen he looks promising.

[Seannery]

I'm thinking there may be some young Australians, Irish, Scots, Welsh and English being checked out. Does anyone know any young up and coming Australian actors for example?


And with this category of the hot young actor with an accent you can have the exception of needing USA exposure since there is a tradition of this type of actor creating buzz and excitment in Hollywood with such actors as Crowe, Farrell, Connery, Gibson in the past. So you may have some actor on Australian or British Isles TV or films that may be under the radar particularly in the USA and a diamond in the rough that could ignite the screen.

[spynovelfan]

Just by-the-by, but what do people think of Jack Davenport's chances?

Minimal, I'd have thought, unless he's in a TV series that's a smash hit in the US that I hadn't heard of. They remade COUPLING with American actors, and it flopped. He had a small role in THE TALENTED MR RIPLEY and a slightly bigger one in PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, but neither were Bond-ish. He played a spineless upper-class British fop in both. I see him as a comic actor, not a leading man. That said, I did find a photo of him looking a bit 'hard'. But he still just looks like Miles to me - I think he always will.

[Loomis]

But he still just looks like Miles to me - I think he always will.

But Miles IS James Bond! IMO, anyway.

A coldhearted, cocky little **** with bags of sex appeal. Isn't that Fleming's creation?

[spynovelfan]

Miles was a prat, Loomis. In fact, Davenport always plays prats. James Bond isn't meant to be a prat.

[Loomis]

Miles was a prat, Loomis. In fact, Davenport always plays prats. James Bond isn't meant to be a prat.

Hmmm.... perhaps I'm looking back on Davenport's performance in "This Life" through rose-coloured spectacles. Long time since I saw it.

Still, he hardly seems one of the more ludicrous supposed Bond candidates, although given that we now seem to be devoting threads to the likes of Gaffney and Rossdale, that may not be saying all that much.

[spynovelfan]

I don't think he's a ludicrous candidate, by any means. I just think there are a lot of better candidates out there.

But yes, we'll be having 'Shane McGowan for Bond' threads soon.