38 replies to this topic

[DLibrasnow]

Now that Benson has hung up his 007 writing typewriter/word processor, who would you like to see write continuation novels?

Personally I can think of a few CBners. Top of that list is John Cox. A much better writer than Benson and someone who knows more than a little about 007.

Ideas?

[Atticus17F]

My first choice would be Jim. Martin Amis a close second.

[spynovelfan]

As I've already said (at some length! ), I think it's time IFP radically rethought the adult continuations, and my idea would be for a series of 50s and 60s-set novels featuring the other 00 agents.

I suspect that they will reignite the continuation series, and that it will be a radical new idea (look at Higson), but the chances of it being the above idea are admittedly around zero point nil nil nothing. Depending on what they go for, I think any number of writers could handle it. I think there are some extremely talented writers who have shown their work on this website, though I can't really see IFP hiring any of them. It would also be a very different kettle of fish were they hired. Look at Benson - fans loved his Bedside Companion, he's a lovely chap, he understood the character and his history in and out (unlike Gardner), and many people on this and other websites knew him personally or knew of him. He still got slammed. More importantly, the great reading public never really got a chance to read him. Would you like to see one of the people here go through that? Continually have to defend them when it doesn't work out/they make a few mistakes? It's not easy - Higson's already on the back-foot. I think the gig's a poisoned chalice myself: if you're lucky, you can get a Saab or a Clancy continuation out of it. I think some of the people here could make themselves very nice livings from writing thrillers, though, and I've been wondering why they don't just do that.

Edited by spynovelfan, 01 March 2005 - 08:01 PM.

[DLibrasnow]

I'm working on one. I think most people in my field are usually.

[marktmurphy]

Sorry- proffessional writers only please. I've never seen John do prose (I'm sure he could, but..) and Jim is very good, but would need some serious editing. I would actually like to see Higson do it- he's a tried and tested thriller writer and apparently has done a good job of Silverfin. Of course, young Bond would keep him too busy and IFP would probably want to differentiate the ranges.

[spynovelfan]

Sorry- proffessional writers only please. I've never seen John do prose (I'm sure he could, but..) and Jim is very good, but would need some serious editing. I would actually like to see Higson do it- he's a tried and tested thriller writer and apparently has done a good job of Silverfin. Of course, young Bond would keep him too busy and IFP would probably want to differentiate the ranges.

I haven't seen any of Jon Cox's prose, either - but I believe he is a professional writer. And Raymond Benson had never written a novel before being approached by IFP, whereas John Gardner had written over 20.

All writers need editors - you might be surprised how much. But your post does, I think, illustrate the point I was making in mine - if someone from 'fandom' was appointed, that would only be the start of the carping.

Incidentally, 'professional' only has one 'f'.

Edited by spynovelfan, 01 March 2005 - 08:11 PM.

[DLibrasnow]

Agreed. I think nearly all professional writers have editors that clean up their work. I stand by my assertion that Zencat could do it, even if he is more used to writing for the screen.

[clinkeroo]

I know that I'm re-treading old paths, or even worse, old threads, but I still like the idea of unearthing the Markham concept that would give "name" authors the opportunity to take one-shot cracks at a Bond novel under a group pseudonym.

I believe it was markmurphy who suggested the small-run, high quality edition concept (an idea I love), but with the potential of Higson's stories, our little niche readership may be growing soon and such an idea may work on a larger scale.

Yes, I know the argument that big name thriller writers wouldn't want to cut their payday, or surrender their creativity to the Ann Fleming wannabe's of the world, but then you see something like the Hard Case Crime series where people like Stephen King, Ed McBain, and Lawrence Block are contributing short novels. It seems that the labour-of-love angle would actually work to the fans' benefit, weeding out those big names that would just be in it for the money, and leaving those people who had an honest admiration for Fleming and his work. Ergo, we would have the Kingsley Amis's of the world instead of the John Gardner's. For most of these chaps, 70,000 to 100,000 words are like strolling in the park, even Fleming and his beloved golden typewriter only needed a few months to whip one out.

Oh, well, that should be enough fodder for discussion.

BTW, I'd love to see Higson take a shot, not to mention Martin Amis, Len Deighton, or Fredrick Forsythe.

[spynovelfan]

I think Forsyth's already said no. Deighton would have been terrific, many moons ago - my theory is that he was a huge Fleming fan. He's retired from writing now, though (but perhaps he can be reeled in for 'one last job' ).I don't think Amis Junior has the right style at all, and the whole thing would fold under the pressure of being compared to both Fleming and his father. But I do, of course, also like the idea. I think it is pretty unworkable, but it's a great fantasy. I tihk my idea's just as fantastic, but would be more workable.

But in your fantasy, Clinkeroo, I'd like to see William Boyd, Bret Easton Ellis, George MacDonald Fraser or Peter O'Donnell give it a go. Or all of them.

Interesting that they chose Higson. I wonder if Hugh Laurie might be interested - his thriller a few years ago got very good reviews indeed, and I know he's a spy nut. He was even in Spooks/MI5! That kind of mid-ranking writer without his own massive thriller or literary career but a lot of talent might work very well. The guy who writes Spooks, David Wollstencraft I think his name is, might also be an idea. Just wrote a thriller, too.

Edited by spynovelfan, 01 March 2005 - 09:05 PM.

[Roebuck]

I'd nominate horror writer Robert R McCammon, solely on the basis of 'The Wolf's Hour'; his novel about a secret agent working for the British government during WWII. The style of the book feels very influenced by Fleming and there are a few touches he would have appreciated (A bird of prey guards the villain's hotel room and one of the key confrontations takes place onboard a 'death train' whose carriages each contain a different, lethal booby-trap). The one supernatural element of the book - and I'll admit it's a biggie - is that the hero is a lycanthrope. But if you can look beyond that, 'The Wolf's Hour' is a rollicking good spy yarn with great sense of the period.

[marktmurphy]

Incidentally, 'professional' only has one 'f'.

Hmm- you make some very good points, but correcting someone is incredibly rude and after a particularly bad day it's hard for me not to tell you to off.

[marktmurphy]

I wonder if Hugh Laurie might be interested - his thriller a few years ago got very good reviews indeed, and I know he's a spy nut. He was even in Spooks/MI5! That kind of mid-ranking writer without his own massive thriller or literary career but a lot of talent might work very well. The guy who writes Spooks, David Wollstencraft I think his name is, might also be an idea. Just wrote a thriller, too.

Indeed- the Gun Seller was a cracking thriller; I was expecting something very different but he delivered a corker which had me turning the pages. It doesn't seem likely he can find the time to write books unfortunately. And I'm about a quarter of the way through the Wolstencroft (That's how you spell it, by the way) novel and it's a proper gripping, slightly silly but with a dash of realism, thriller. Much the same qualities you find in Spooks, but without the glamour- much like how the Harry Palmers were just as silly as the Bonds but in a different way. Can't wait to get back to it.

And thanks Clinkeroo- I thought everybody hated my ideas!

[Qwerty]

Incidentally, 'professional' only has one 'f'.

Hmm- you make some very good points, but correcting someone is incredibly rude and after a particularly bad day it's hard for me not to tell you to off.

MarkT, please do not insult the other members of the forum like so.

[marktmurphy]

Incidentally, 'professional' only has one 'f'.

Hmm- you make some very good points, but correcting someone is incredibly rude and after a particularly bad day it's hard for me not to tell you to off.

MarkT, please do not insult the other members of the forum like so.

It wasn't an insult- it was threatened (but not carried out) abuse. See how annoying being corrected is?

[Blofeld's Cat]

Martin Cruz Smith

or

J. K. Mayo

[License To Kill]

John Cox

[Tarl_Cabot]

Eric Van Lustbader

[Dunph]

Jilly Cooper.

[spynovelfan]

Incidentally, 'professional' only has one 'f'.

Hmm- you make some very good points, but correcting someone is incredibly rude and after a particularly bad day it's hard for me not to tell you to off.

MarkT, please do not insult the other members of the forum like so.

It wasn't an insult- it was threatened (but not carried out) abuse. See how annoying being corrected is?

I put a winky smiley next to it! I don't usually point out typos, but I was making a point. When calling for high standards in a slightly high-minded manner (as you were), it helps if you get words like that right. You were also saying that you felt Jim would need serious editing - your case was damaged by your misspelling that word. A small point, and one made with some measure of ironic affection. If you want to go off the deep-end about it, I can't stop you - but it seems a little OTT.

[spynovelfan]

Martin Cruz Smith

or

J. K. Mayo

Cruz Smith would be interesting, though I very much doubt he'd be interested. But he wrote a few Nick Carters way back when, and one of them features a British agent who's clearly meant to be Bond. He also wrote a series about an assassin for the Vatican that was rather good.

JK Mayo? Really? I have a couple of his, but I couldn't get very far in them. Have we had this discussion before - is he James Mayo of Charles Hood not-much-fame?

[marktmurphy]

I put a winky smiley next to it! I don't usually point out typos, but I was making a point. When calling for high standards in a slightly high-minded manner (as you were), it helps if you get words like that right.  You were also saying that you felt Jim would need serious editing - your case was damaged by your misspelling that word. A small point, and one made with some measure of ironic affection. If you want to go off the deep-end about it, I can't stop you - but it seems a little OTT.

I got the joke; no need to explain it- it was still an annoying thing to say (and yes- I appreciate the irony of spelling professional wrong, but correcting anybody no matter the circumstances is very rude. Also, as I'm not a professional, the irony of my spelling professional wrong isn't that great- would have been better if I'd spelt 'spelling' wrong). My comment about editing was more about Jim's tendency to not keep his text very taught and diverge from the point, not spelling. I don't think there's any need to undermine anyone's 'case' by pointing out any spelling mistakes. And as for being 'high-minded', I'll keep that in mind when you pass judgement on any writers in future.
That said, I think you're one of the more intelligent posters here and I look forward to your knowledgable posts.

[spynovelfan]

Mark, I think you're taking it a little the wrong way. If you're annoyed at my pointing out you can't spell the word 'professional', perhaps you might consider how Jim likes you saying to everyone that he would need 'serious editing'. Which is ruder, really?

But let's not get into one of those interminable and needless internet battles over absolutely bugger all. After all, we agree on Hugh Laurie and Len Deighton.

[Hitch]

Could someone point me to John Cox's Bond fan fiction, please? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? [:-)]

[spynovelfan]

Martin Cruz Smith

or

J. K. Mayo

Cruz Smith would be interesting, though I very much doubt he'd be interested. But he wrote a few Nick Carters way back when, and one of them features a British agent who's clearly meant to be Bond. He also wrote a series about an assassin for the Vatican that was rather good.

JK Mayo? Really? I have a couple of his, but I couldn't get very far in them. Have we had this discussion before - is he James Mayo of Charles Hood not-much-fame?

To answer my own question, yes I see you mentioned this over at my spy discussion group a while back, and yes they are two different writers. JK Mayo is William Watson. James Mayo was Stephen Coulter, a friend of Fleming's. Pretty bizarre that they chose such similar pseudonyms to write spy novels under, though. Some of James Mayo's Charles Hood stuff reads a hell of a lot like Fleming: SHAMELADY, for instance. Wonder if he was considered in '64.

Goes Googling.

Edited by spynovelfan, 02 March 2005 - 10:55 AM.

[David Schofield]

John Pearson got any energy left? I know Spy was in contact with him lately.

Or why not Christopher Wood, the writer of possibly the best continuation novel of the lot. Certainly second best at least. I know in interviews he's always said he'd like the idea and on the evidence of The Spy Who Loved Me, could do a better job than anyone else.

But please, no more fanboys.

Edited by David Schofield, 02 March 2005 - 11:16 AM.

[spynovelfan]

I don't know - define fanboy. I think Amis was a fanboy, see. It's a prerequisite that the writer of the novels knows and loves James Bond. Gardner didn't, really, on either count, and that was quite a problem. I think it's too easy to dismiss anyone on an internet forum as being a fanboy and inappropriate - you have no idea who they are, or what their background is. The world is moving on. Someone with a slightly odd moniker might turn out to be a professional screenwriter. Are we going to disqualify anyone who uses the internet? If they do know and love Bond, the chances are that they'd be talking about it in discussion groups like this. If Amis were alive and of compis mentis, he might well be in here trashing Brosnan with the rest of us ('so sodding tame!'). Quite a few of the members of my spy-thriller discussion forum are published thriller-writers. Fan-boys? Sure. Capable of doing this kind of thing? Some of them already have. I want someone who's a professional and capable writer who is knowledgeable and passionate about the character.

That said, I suspect IFP see things just the way you do, and that anyone who publishes fan-fiction online would be immediately discounted, as their mental image would be Harry Knowles with a Bond convention T-shirt.

On Pearson - he sounded all Bonded out to me.

[David Schofield]

I don't know - define fanboy. I think Amis was a fanboy, see. It's a prerequisite that the writer of the novels knows and loves James Bond. Gardner didn't, really, on either count, and that was quite a problem. I think it's too easy to dismiss anyone on an internet forum as being a fanboy and inappropriate - you have no idea who they are, or what their background is. The world is moving on. Someone with a slightly odd moniker might turn out to be a professional screenwriter. Are we going to disqualify anyone who uses the internet? If they do know and love Bond, the chances are that they'd be talking about it in discussion groups like this. If Amis were alive and of compis mentis, he might well be in here trashing Brosnan with the rest of us ('so sodding tame!'). Quite a few of the members of my spy-thriller discussion forum are published thriller-writers. Fan-boys? Sure. Capable of doing this kind of thing? Some of them already have. I want someone who's a professional and capable writer who is knowledgeable and passionate about the character.

That said, I suspect IFP see things just the way you do, and that anyone who publishes fan-fiction online would be immediately discounted, as their mental image would be Harry Knowles with a Bond convention T-shirt.

On Pearson - he sounded all Bonded out to me.

Come on, Spy, you know exactly what I mean by fanboy and your second last paragraph sums it up: non-writers with no professional literary background who fancy their own fan fiction. Benson, basically, who I always imagine, interestingly enough, in one of those old T shirts marketed by the old US fan club on the back of Bondage magazine in the early 80s.

Of course it helps to write Bond to be a fan, but its more of a prerequisite to be a writer.

[spynovelfan]

Sorry, I took it that your 'fanboy' comment meant a firm no to the suggestion in this thread that some of the members of this site would be suitable. I was just trying to point out that that's not always very fair. Gardner had plenty of 'professional literary background' when he got the job. Some of his writing is dreadful. Take this little bit from ICEBREAKER, which I've just pulled off the net:

"From time to time he had worked in conjunction with another member of either his own, or a sister, service. But Icebreaker was different. Now he had been forced to act with a team and Bond was not a team man - especially not a team that blatantly contained grave elements of mistrust."

That is incredibly clumsy, and nothing that bad is in Fleming, Amis, Pearson or Wood. Several of the words are redundant and slow things down terribly. The first sentence would be much better as something like:

'He had previously worked with members of MI6 or sister services."

Then he has 'team' three times in a sentence. And teams blatantly containing grave elements of mistrust? Contained is the wrong word and the modifiers bog it all down. It's a mess, and much of his Bond work reads like a first draft. So I agree with you - the ability to write well is a must. But I think there's stuff in the fan fiction section of this site that runs rings around Gardner, so I think it's not necessarily the case that a 'fanboy' couldn't do it. Maybe Benson couldn't do it - but that's not the same thing.

Edited by spynovelfan, 02 March 2005 - 12:02 PM.

[DLibrasnow]

Or why not Christopher Wood, the writer of possibly the best continuation novel of the lot. Certainly second best at least. I know in interviews he's always said he'd like the idea and on the evidence of The Spy Who Loved Me, could do a better job than anyone else.

Oh absolutely, Wood wrote two great Bond novels.

[Trident]

Has anybody here thaught of Daniel Silva? He already wrote a couple of espionage thrillers. I particularly liked "The Kill Artist". His latest three or four books used an israeli secret agent called Gabriel Allon. Granted, he has a completely different style as compared to Fleming. I think, he is more of an action oriented leCarre but he is able to built up some tension and gets the action scenes quite good IMHO. OK, he is an American and therefor maybe not so much interested in writing about Bond. But I still think, he might be excellent for putting Bond into the next decade.

And he has something in common with many good writers, including Fleming: he worked as a journalist and learned how to craft his sentences. He might be interested if it was only for one book and he had the oportunity to go back to his Allon.

Another writer that comes to my mind is a guy with the pseudonym "Trevanian". He wrote two very good thrillers in the '70s that were supposed to be Bond-inspired, "The Eiger Sanction" and "The Loo Sanction". He had definitly a taste for the fantastic and lager-than-life plots that would have suited Bond very well. His style was quite ironic and I don't know how well this might have turned out if he had been the continuation author in the '80s instead of Gardner. Another work of his is "Shibumi" which comes almost off as a parody, but then again not completely. I enjoyed it very much. After this he seems to have gotten tired of writing about secret agents and he published "The Summer of Katja" which I can only recommend from hazy memories as I haven't read it for at least 15 years. It's not about spionage or agents but I remember it as a hell of a good thriller set before the beginning of WWI.
Somewhere I read he had to give up the pseudonym due to his divorce. I don't know if he is still writing at all.

Strange thought but somehow I would like to see Stephen King have a go at Bond. He wrote some gripping and downright scary pieces without any form of fantastic element in them. And apart from action he provides a great atmosphere very often, something Fleming would have approved of.

Edited by Trident, 02 March 2005 - 03:53 PM.