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[Qwerty]

Bond composer rails against successors The film composer John Barry - whose stellar 50-year career has encompassed scoring the great Bond movies, Out of Africa and Dances With Wolves - has lashed out against his musical successors. "[The composers] have nothing to say. They are just messing around with notes. I'm at a loss," he told the Guardian. "I walk out of the cinema bewildered these days. I think, what was the producer or director thinking of to allow 45 minutes or an hour of music that doesn't mean a damn thing?" On Saturday, the 71-year-old Yorkshireman receives the Academy Fellowship at the Baftas for an outstanding lifetime contribution to cinema, an honour previously awarded to Charlie Chaplin, Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick and, last year, John Boorman. Talking about the generation of Hollywood composers such as Miklos Rozsa, Franz Waxman and Bernard Herrmann, many of whom were exiled from central Europe in the prewar years and ended up defining a golden age of film music, Barry said: "They were my heroes. The people I adored and learned from. But today I don't see there's anything to learn." "Today it's very empty. There's a whole thing of loading films up with songs - it's a commercial choice. The composers seem to ignore what's going on on screen. I look at movies; in the old days you knew what the composer was about. Today you don't - the scores are like a filler." Asked whether he could be tempted to write a score for Casino Royale, based on Ian Fleming's first 007 novel and due for release in 2006, he said: "It would depend. Films like From Russia With Love and You Only Live Twice were based on an old tradition of moviemaking. They were great stories - the idea of raiding Fort Knox is a great story. But the Bond movies have totally changed. They don't have any stories any more. "Sean [Connery] was marvellous. George [Lazenby] - well, we won't talk about that. Roger Moore was good. Pierce [Brosnan] was fine. But the films wouldn't have made it without Sean. We don't have those stars any more. "The formula has run out. It was great and it had its day. Now they are just treading water." Barry, who is based in New York state, has recently received poor reviews for his musical version of Graham Greene's novel Brighton Rock which premiered in October at the Almeida theatre in London. "When people think of musicals these days they think of Mary Poppins," he said. "When there is murder and deceit they are confused. But I think that's wrong. Think of West Side Story, which is very dark." The four-times Oscar winner, born the son of a cinema-owner and a pianist, recalled his earliest memories of film. "My father had eight movie-theatres in the north of England. I remember his taking me to the Rialto in York when I was about three or four. I was taken to the back and I saw a big black and white mouse on the screen - and there was all this wonderful music and people were going crazy. I forget what I did last week but I remember this so vividly."

Source: Guardian

[TheSaint]

I'm surprised he didn't comment on Dalton's portrayal of Bond, as he commented on Sean, George, Roger, and Pierce.

[Qwerty]

Moved your post here. Sorry that this thread was closer earlier, I must have accidentally closed this one.

[TheSaint]

No prob-I thought it odd that it was closed so, I opened one up.

[Problem Eliminator]

It seems that Barry is speaking generally about today's composers, not specifically those that have scored 007 after him. Certainly he could object to Serra's terrible GE score and maybe even parts of Kamen's decent entry for LTK. By stopping short of naming any of his fellow 007 composers, Barry seems to indicate that he at least respects his successors in the Bond realm and can relate to the challenge of composing for the epic series. I seem to recall hearing that he is an acquaintance if not friend of current scribe David Arnold. Arnold's Bond work, though increasingly techno infused, has often been described as "Barry-esque."

Most surprising to me is the off-handed remark about Lazenby. Maybe Barry was put off by George's demeanor or work ethic on set. It seems the only reason that a composer would speak out against a star/film for which he provided a score that is without question among his very best 007 entries.

[K1Bond007]

Certainly he could object to Serra's terrible GE score

Oh hush. I liked it It wasn't for every Bond film, but IMO it was good for the film - and only that film. I can't imagine anything like that for anyother Bond film.

I couldn't help but think as I read this article that Barry was falling into the stereotypical "grumpy old man" who believes everything was better "in his day". I realise that there are a lot of films out there with horrible soundtracks, but there are still great composers and great soundtracks out there, recently Howard Shore's LOTR trilogy soundtrack was fantastic. IMHO of course.

[Problem Eliminator]

Fair enough K1Bond007, I guess to each his own. I stand by the spirit of my comments regarding Serra. While maybe "terrible" is a bit extreme, his music is wildly inappropriate for GE. Using sappy love themes in the casino instead of the classic Bond theme is inexcusable. Likewise his refusual to play the Bond theme straight and instead contort it to his techno style (the tank chase music was done by an arranger) is a joke. I can respect Serra's attempt to modernize the Bond sound, but he went way too far and lost all reference to the established 007 musical canon. At least we only had to wait until the next movie for the perfect combination of cutting edge rhythms and classic Bond sound.

[SecretAgentFan]

Barry

[Kingdom Come]

Serra's score was sublimely excellent. A work of art and then some. But I do agree with what Barry has said re messing around with notes and filler. When he says this I am reminded of how Howard Shore and Thomas Newman compose. But Barry needs to understand that today movie scoring has moved into a new sphere. We don't need the song structures of his beautiful cues anymore. Music was becoming more and more foreground under him and often overshadowed the film/scenes. Directors today want mood more often. With wonderful composers like the above mentioned we now have greater subtlety. I also agree with him the the Bond films are treading water. This new film may be more evidence of this.

[Donovan]

Most surprising to me is the off-handed remark about Lazenby. Maybe Barry was put off by George's demeanor or work ethic on set. It seems the only reason that a composer would speak out against a star/film for which he provided a score that is without question among his very best 007 entries.

He is quoted in John Brosnan's "James Bond in the Cinema" as saying of Lazenby: "he couldn't have created a boiled egg." He was referring to the last scene after Tracy has been shot. He wrote the song "We Have All The Time In The World" with Sean Connery in mind for this scene. In spite of Barry's opinion lot of people think this was a good dramatic performance for Lazenby.

As for the "GoldenEye" score, my main problems with it are 1.) the music during the car chase 2.) the casino music and 3.) one of the worst songs ever composed and performed: "The Experience of Love". Aside from GE, I liked Serra's music for "La Femme Nikita" and "Leon", and at the time he was announced as the composer I had high hopes.

[Hitch]

Perhaps Barry was complaining about the lack of distinctive film composers nowadays. I don't know much about film scores but I can recognise a Barryesque, Morricone-like or Vangels-lite sound when I hear it. A lot of composers nowadays have to deal with very short scenes and frenzied editing - the music necessariy must take a back seat and blend in rather than draw attention to itself.

A number of times I've been enjoying a film and afterwards realised the music was fantastic and then became interested in the composer. I watched Zulu, the Ipcress File, Funeral in Berlin, Dancing With Wolves, The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, A Fistful of Dollors, Chariots of Fire and Bladerunner and only later realised how much the music improved the films. Furthermore I could distinguish between the composers' motifs and traits. I'm sure there are plenty of film omposers who can do that nowadays, but I haven't heard of them - my fault, no doubt.

[hrabb04]

John's right. Scores these days for the most part do suck. Especially the scores for the Bruckheimer pictures.

[Turn]

I think the emphasis on scores falls less on composers these days and instead gets tossed to a mixture of score along with a bunch of pop tunes to sell soundtracks. The Spider-Man movies seem like a prime example of this. It seems like in the past that scores could help move a film along almost like a character.

I like the other interview with there is a link to where he talks about scoring Midnight Cowboy and crafting songs with other artists that were geared to the actual film itself. So many these days are just pulled from popular artists and made to sound as if they were made exclusively for the film, which they often aren't. There are exceptions where such songs work well, depending on what type of film it is.

[Mr. Somerset]

I appreciated the article as it's fascinating to me to read Barry's opinion of film composing today. I'd have to say there aren't too many current film scores I remember after leaving the cinema. So I agree with him on quite a few levels. He really seemed to diss the later Bonds, though. For the most part I like what Arnold has done with the films (except changing the structure of the gunbarrel theme in his first 2 films). As for GE, I thought Serra's score worked in a few scenes. I kind of liked his Bond theme during the Arkangel factory sequence. "Ladies First" is pretty silly, and his reluctance to use the Bond theme in the film doesn't sound like he should even be doing a Bond film. On the other hand, I felt Kamen over-used the Bond theme, and LTK would've worked better if there had been an instrumental version of the title song...maybe during the truck chase. I would love to see Barry return to the series some day, but for now Arnold's all right.

[Kingdom Come]

Shows you how unreliable perception is; Serra used the TIRED James Bond theme in a lot of his cues - but subtlely. Kamen used the TIRED James Bond theme very little. Serra was told by the producers to create a NEW SOUND for Bond. Serra's score for me is one of the best scores I have heard in 30 years. His use of instruments; his style; approach; daring; orginality was what a Bond film used to have many MANY years ago. As Barry says, these films are treading water.

[DLibrasnow]

Certainly he could object to Serra's terrible GE score

Oh hush. I liked it It wasn't for every Bond film, but IMO it was good for the film - and only that film. I can't imagine anything like that for anyother Bond film.

Amen
I also liked it, Serra score was far better than anything paint-by-numbers Arnold has ever put out. I personally don't think that Arnold has one creative bone in his body.

[trs007]

AUgh, fellas, fellas. This is an article about Barry, not to praise that .

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Since reading this piece, I keep asking myself "What composers could Barry be talking about in particular?" Which then leads to the question, which movies would Barry care to see anyway? (i.e. on which films/composers is Barry basing his judgment?) Because I don't think Barry would necessarily condemn ALL of the current generation of composers, but some, certainly.

Is it a question of just "playing with notes" as Barry says, or is it simply the move toward modern scoring, as in John Powell's Bourne Supremacy work?

[Bondian]

I can remember several interviews were JB had been quite unkind to fellow Composers, AND Actresses.

In an interview a couple of years ago, he was talking about Celine Dion, and how she always chose a song that started quietly, then built up to a fortissimo at the end.

If you check out the interview with JB on the 'A View to a Kill' DVD ( I think ) he doesn't look that convinced when he mentions David Arnold. He looks very awkward, and starts to itch, and looks uncomfortable.

If he IS getting bitter in his latter years, he cannot complain about the marvellous music that he's managed to project through many film scores.

I doubt very much that if he was asked to score Bond 21, it would be in the mold, and quality of his previous work. In fact, he'd do a David Arnold, and regurgitate some of his old material.

Why should EON pay $$$ for the masters return when they have someone who's pretty good at imitating his work.

Cheers,


Ian

[Loomis]

Why should EON pay $$$ for the masters return when they have someone who's pretty good at imitating his work.

Well, I think (although I realise it's not on the cards, since Arnold seems to be a done deal for CASINO ROYALE) getting Barry back for one more would make quite a bit of commercial sense at this point. Sure, it wouldn't cause significantly more people to whack their bums down on cinema seats, but, still, it would cause a bit of excitement and get people talking. You know the sort of thing: "Wow, not only are they giving us a new Bond, but they're going back to Fleming, going back to CASINO ROYALE, and they've got the master John Barry back, too, with his first Bond score for nearly 20 years." It would be the same kind of deal if they got Ken Adam to do the production design - a cool (and very fan-pleasing*) element of "vintage Bond" thrown back into the mix, just one more thing to make people think they were pulling out all the stops for CASINO ROYALE and trying to deliver something pretty special.

I've always thought it a great pity that the Brosnan era doesn't have even one Barry score. I know this isn't logical, but a big part of me thinks you can't have a proper Bond film without one.

*But not just (hardcore Bond) fan-pleasing; there'd be, for instance, articles in music mags with Barry talking about his long-awaited return to the Bond series, which would garner publicity for CASINO ROYALE, and maybe boost CD sales of his old Bond soundtracks, and in general excite the interest of a lot of people and generate cash.

[Bondian]

Loomis. You've given me a wet dream, and I'm not even in bed.

Oh, yes. It would be super to have all the 'elements' back, even if it were for one film. But, there's been too much "water under the bridge" now for most of these 'elements' to make a successful return.

Cheers Mate,


Ian

Well, I think (although I realise it's not on the cards, since Arnold seems to be a done deal for CASINO ROYALE) getting Barry back for one more would make quite a bit of commercial sense at this point. Sure, it wouldn't cause significantly more people to whack their bums down on cinema seats, but, still, it would cause a bit of excitement and get people talking. You know the sort of thing: "Wow, not only are they giving us a new Bond, but they're going back to Fleming, going back to CASINO ROYALE, and they've got the master John Barry back, too, with his first Bond score for nearly 20 years." It would be the same kind of deal if they got Ken Adam to do the production design - a cool element of "vintage Bond" thrown back into the mix, just one more thing to make people think they were pulling out all the stops for CASINO ROYALE and trying to deliver something pretty special.

I've always thought it a great pity that the Brosnan era doesn't have even one Barry score. I know this isn't logical, but a big part of me thinks you can't have a proper Bond film without one.

[Turn]

If he IS getting bitter in his latter years, he cannot complain about the marvellous music that he's managed to project through many film scores.

I doubt very much that if he was asked to score Bond 21, it would be in the mold, and quality of his previous work. In fact, he'd do a David Arnold, and regurgitate some of his old material.

Why should EON pay $$$ for the masters return when they have someone who's pretty good at imitating his work.

Cheers,


Ian

On the first matter, it has always kind of bothered me that Barry refers to his Bond scores as "million-dollar Mickey Mouse music." A lot of us find these scores marvelous and I can't help but think some of the films may have lost something if his scores hadn't been a part of them. Then again, people of his level have their own way of thinking, and if effortlessness results in some of these scores I find it amazing.

How is fact, Bondian, that Barry would necessarily regurgitate his previous work? Maybe with these comments it means he's itching to do something and has ideas rattling around he needs to get out. Regurgitated Barry would be a much more welcome choice for most fans than regurgitated Arnold.

Asking why somebody would pay $$$ to have somebody pretty good at imitating his work against the master would be like giving EON a choice of having Connery in his prime versus having Brosnan at his. There is no choice.

[Bondian]

On the first matter, it has always kind of bothered me that Barry refers to his Bond scores as "million-dollar Mickey Mouse music." A lot of us find these scores marvelous and I can't help but think some of the films may have lost something if his scores hadn't been a part of them. Then again, people of his level have their own way of thinking, and if effortlessness results in some of these scores I find it amazing.

It's odd. When Barry's being interviewed about his music in the Bond films, he seems to poo-poo them as naff and brash affairs. But when speaking on the DVD's he cannot say enough about them.

How is fact, Bondian, that Barry would necessarily regurgitate his previous work? Maybe with these comments it means he's itching to do something and has ideas rattling around he needs to get out. Regurgitated Barry would be a much more welcome choice for most fans than regurgitated Arnold.

I doubt very much if he even bothers going to watch the Bonds, especially as EON seemed to of dropped him after 'The Living Daylights'.

I would think he would go back to his original manuscripts to refresh himself on how he acquired THAT sound, and, how to bring back a fresh view on the music. But quite honestly, that latter Barry scores like 'Octopussy' and 'A View to a Kill' were very simular. However, he did come back with a new sound for 'The Living Daylights'.

Asking why somebody would pay $$$ to have somebody pretty good at imitating his work against the master would be like giving EON a choice of having Connery in his prime versus having Brosnan at his. There is no choice.

Well it's true. Arnold is a hack.

Cheers,


Ian

[TonicBH]

For some reason, I feel like Barry just likes chastising music that isn't his, and doing major asskissing to EON to hopefully get what he thinks is (and it's rightfully so) "his job" back. I believe he thinks any music in a Bond film that isn't his is a disgrace to the franchise.

Which I tend to disagree. Each Bond film has always had a part of the score that I've always liked. Even parts of "abysmal" scores like GE and DAD.

I'm not saying that necessarily this is the case.

[MattofSteel]

First of all, I have to agree with everyone who detests Eric Serra's GE score.

Secondly, I don't know if I'd like to see John Barry scoring CR by himself. Granted, I love his work and think it contains some of the best Bond music to date. But what was the last thing John scored, and when? I'd would love to see him COLLABORATE with David Arnold on the score...I think that would be an interesting experience.

And I think Mr. Barry may have been generalizing somewhat with his comments...there are certainly many decent composers in the world today, not all of them are certainly 'playing with notes.' I will admit some have lost focus and, apparently, objectivity, but there remain good and descent scores coming out of Hollywood and films abroad.

[Ozzel]

Most surprising to me is the off-handed remark about Lazenby. Maybe Barry was put off by George's demeanor or work ethic on set. It seems the only reason that a composer would speak out against a star/film for which he provided a score that is without question among his very best 007 entries.

I believe Barry has also said that he had to make his score for OHMSS extra good because Lazenby couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.