[daman3755]

I was watchin' Octopussy the other night at work. I'm a security guard, and since there's nothing better to do, I opted to bring movies and my laptop. Anyway I always noticed the size of the Walther that Bond would be toting around. I've seen it for the past two years now, but I wasn't sure what kind of gun it was. Till now.

Anyone ever know that Bond carried a Walther P5 in Octopussy? I sure as heck didn't. I was doing research for my book on Walther handguns and came across the specs for the P5. Cute gun, slightly bigger than the PPK. I wondered if, for some strange reason, that the producers had to go with the P5 in Octopussy. I question this because in AVTAK Bond is back to using the PPK again.

Anyone know why Bond used the P5 in Octopussy, yet hasn't ever again? Input needed. Thanks a bunch.

(I know that the handgun is used on "Walker Texas Ranger," I've noticed Ranger Trivette using it as his piece.)

[Qwerty]

Well I know what I'll be looking for next time I watch Octopussy! You seem to be absolutely positive on this, daman3755! Any particular scenes you'd say where it really stands out?

[Janus Assassin]

Bond told Q in his workshop in India that "he misplaced his PPK" I guess Q gave him a new model or something.

[Qwerty]

Janus Assassin, on 26 July 2004 - 15:00, said:

Bond told Q in his workshop in India that "he misplaced his PPK" I guess Q gave him a new model or something.

Oh, good point Janus Assassin. I never thought of that. Perhaps the PPK was featured in the film up to that exact point then? Something like the deal in Tomorrow Never Dies.

[Qwerty]

Ah, spot on Daman. Just noticed this: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalo...46/weapons.html

[License To Kill]

I think P5 was in Never Say Never Again. But that's not a Bond movie

[License To Kill]

Oops, just saw that link, Qwerty. Oh well.

[Qwerty]

License To Kill, on 26 July 2004 - 15:41, said:

I think P5 was in Never Say Never Again. But that's not a Bond movie 

Looks like it was both:

Falling out of sink with the rest of the series, 1983's Octopussy saw James Bond using a newer brand of Walther. The Walther P5 made its appearance and was noticeably quite larger and longer than the PPK. The P5 did deliver a powerful kick but wasn't good enough to return for A View To A Kill. On a note. The 1983 Unofficial James Bond film, Never Say Never Again also featured Bond actor Sean Connery armed with a P5.

And it is so a Bond movie!

Quote

Oops, just saw that link, Qwerty. Oh well.

Haha, either way works.

[daman3755]

I know Connery uses it in NSNA - that is obvious, because I'd guess having the rivals use the same gun was a no-no? I dunno, if anyone can answer that question, you know your stuff. As for when you can spot the P5 in action, stick in Octopussy and forward to when Bond corners Orlov in the traincar, should be around 1:34:00 mark. The Russian soldier opens the door, Bond reacts fast as he pulls the P5 from his waist. BLAM! Shot to Russian's head, Orlov bails, Bond pursues but gets in gunfight. Clearly not the PPK because he fires off 8 or 9 rounds - no, I lie, make that FOURTEEN before his clip is empty.

Also interesting is the DVD packaging. The P5 is on the cover, Moore is holding it, HOWEVER in the insert he is holding the PPK. Also I believe that promo shots, not movie stills, depict Bond with the PPK, but I could be mistaken.

See, we younger Bond fans have our moments as well.

[Qwerty]

daman3755, on 26 July 2004 - 16:24, said:

Also interesting is the DVD packaging. The P5 is on the cover, Moore is holding it, HOWEVER in the insert he is holding the PPK. Also I believe that promo shots, not movie stills, depict Bond with the PPK, but I could be mistaken.

In the link I provided, it seems they also have a few shots of the gun in both Octopussy and Never Say Never Again as I've just noticed.

Regarding the gun switching on the DVD packaging, that's really not surprising. They never seemed to have much of the same deal with those DVD inner booklets. What with the Connery picture from Never Say Never Again in the You Only Live Twice DVD, and as you say here, the different guns.

[007Travis]

Good catch there daman3755. I don't think I would have ever caught that. It's cool to find out little facts like this.

[Bryce (003)]

The P-5 9mm was produced by Walther in 1981 and made the rounds (so to speak) through German Military and Police. As to the how/why it was chosen by BOTH Bond productions, one can only guess.

The line in OP of 007 having "mis-laid" his PPK was either a mistake on Roger's (although my shooting draft of the OP script has the line) or they just didn't want to make a mention of it. If Bond had said "I seem to have mis-laid my Walther" it wouldn't be an issue aside from from the distinctive look of the weapon in question.

Earlier this year when Flicka I visited our good BCW friend Paladin, he gave us the drill on the P-5. I capped off about two clips worth, but Flicka mastered the gun with over 150 rounds and Paladin's steady instruction. I still have her targets. Watch out. No...Really.....REALLY.

The P-5 is a fine piece. The slide assembly was a new design for Walther, but the frame (grip and trigger) are similar to scaled down version of the famous P-38. HOWEVER, one distinct drawback to the gun is that has NO SAFETY. Once you insert a clip, the weapon is "hot" and isn't "cold" until it's been properly unloaded or emptied.

Paladin carried one for a while, until that drawback resulted in a near fatal accident. Not for himself, but another.

Still, a fine gun.

and Yes, the OP promotional stills do have Roger posing with a PPK, but he uses the P-5 for all of the film.

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's. The P-99 is a great combat pistol, but a bit too bulky. If not a return to the PPK then I'd like to see him using the ASP 9mm (Combat/Covert version of the S&W model 39 and a great close-quarters combat pistol) as it very much the weapon of a contemporary operative.

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[TheSaint]

The first time I notiiced this was when 007 magazine pointed it out in it's first magazine-sized issue. Roger carries the PPK until he loses it in the cab fight, then carries the P-5 the rest of the film. Either it's a coincidence that it's the same gun Connery uses in NSNA or, Eon decided to have Roger use the same gun Sean carried in his unofficial return.

[daman3755]

Bryce (003), on 26 July 2004 - 17:56, said:

The line in OP of 007 having "mis-laid" his PPK was either a mistake on Roger's (although my shooting draft of the OP script has the line) or they just didn't want to make a mention of it. If Bond had said "I seem to have mis-laid my Walther" it wouldn't be an issue aside from from the distinctive look of the weapon in question.

...

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's. The P-99 is a great combat pistol, but a bit too bulky.

Thank you, thank you. Being a major film buff/afficiando makes you notice things like that. I saw "Spider-Man 2" for the second time and started noticing things right away, quite uncanny. Makes for fun when you're with friends, you get one of 'em who thinks they're a know-it-all, then you go ahead and stump 'em. I'm workin' on the Bond films now.

As for Moore's misquote, I'd blame him. Hasn't he been known to go off the fly and change lines? I wasn't sure if Bond uses the P5 for the whole film, but then I remembered the chase through the streets, Bond uses the P5 to shoot at the henchmen. Almost forgot about that.

Another thing I've noticed about the Bond films - they have information all wrong on the P99. Clips for the Walther P-99 do not come in odd numbers. German law enforcement uses clips that come in 8's - 8, 16, 24, or 32. (I suppose if you're a one-man army, then the 32 round clip comes in handy.) For American purchase, one must get the 8 clip, as it is mandatory here. As for anywhere else in the world, the clip would be 16, not the 15 that I keep seeing on the Internet. I'll get the link if anyone is interested.

If Bond goes back to the PPK, I wouldn't complain, however we live in the 21st century so I understand why the upgrade was needed. I mean, the P99 is roughly the same size of the Glock 19, so yeah it's a bit bigger but it's far from bulky, it's quite lightweight and precise. I'd stick with the P99, with the PPK as a back-up.

Oh, and no safety on the P5? My God that's awful. The P5 would be nice if not for the fact it lacks the safety, maybe the Polish had a hand in this. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

This post has been edited by daman3755: 26 July 2004 - 11:37 PM

[daman3755]

TheSaint, on 26 July 2004 - 18:28, said:

The first time I notiiced this was when 007 magazine pointed it out in it's first magazine-sized issue. Roger carries the PPK until he loses it in the cab fight, then carries the P-5 the rest of the film. Either it's a coincidence that it's the same gun Connery uses in NSNA or, Eon decided to have Roger use the same gun Sean carried in his unofficial return.

Curious to see if the PPK is used at all. It is NOT. This is verified at time index 34:40 when Bond pulls the P5 out of his shoulder holster and Vijay does the wheelie with the taxi. I believe that that particular scene is the first in the film that the handgun is ever seen; during the pretitles, he uses an assault rifle to fire at the military truck, no gun is seen when Bond is in London.

Again, time index 34:40 minutes. My guess about why the P5 wasn't used ever again - just for poop and giggles anyway, maybe the producers discovered the gun lacked a safety? I doubt anyone really noticed the gun change anyway save for us Bond fans.

[007Travis]

Bryce (003), on 26 July 2004 - 18:56, said:

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's.

I wish they would do this as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I've thought this all along.

[Qwerty]

007Travis, on 26 July 2004 - 21:15, said:

Bryce (003), on 26 July 2004 - 18:56, said:

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's.

I wish they would do this as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I've thought this all along.

I liked seeing the P99 in Tomorrow Never Dies, but I had hoped it would just be a fun little one film deal. I'd like to see the PPK return.

[TheSaint]

daman3755, on 26 July 2004 - 18:41, said:

Curious to see if the PPK is used at all. It is NOT. This is verified at time index 34:40 when Bond pulls the P5 out of his shoulder holster and Vijay does the wheelie with the taxi. I believe that that particular scene is the first in the film that the handgun is ever seen; during the pretitles, he uses an assault rifle to fire at the military truck, no gun is seen when Bond is in London.

Oh ok-I was just rabbiting was was mentioned in the article in 007 magazine. Never occured to me to check to see if he used the P5 from the word go in the movie. Always cool to learn some new factoid here.

[Briane1911a1]

Having seen a couple of PPKs up close, I bet Bond decided to switch to the P99 because he was tired of the sharp edges on the rear end of the PPK's slide cutting into his hand! It's a big problem with that gun and a lot of guys send it to a gunsmith to have those edges rounded off. The PPK may not be big or have a big bang (it's a small caliber), and it may not be macho, but I second how it goes with Bond better than the P99.

If I had to choose between the PPK and a P-5, I'd grab a rock. Both calibers are too weak for my taste, but in a pinch the P-5 would get the nod - only if I used it to get a bad guy's more-powerful gun. I prefer the Colt 1911 .45, for what it's worth. It was nice to see Bond using a .45 in TWINE, too. --Brian

This post has been edited by Briane1911a1: 27 July 2004 - 06:11 AM

[Qwerty]

Briane1911a1, on 27 July 2004 - 02:10, said:

Having seen a couple of PPKs up close, I bet Bond decided to switch to the P99 because he was tired of the sharp edges on the rear end of the PPK's slide cutting into his hand! It's a big problem with that gun and a lot of guys send it to a gunsmith to have those edges rounded off. The PPK may not be big or have a big bang (it's a small caliber), and it may not be macho, but I second how it goes with Bond better than the P99.

Well he did possibly lose his PPK if he was looking for a new handgun in the bike shop in Tomorrow Never Dies. Seems he knew about it before as he asked Q for one. Supposedly more stopping power, but much larger.

[Simon]

At the time of these films' release, there was a whole series of articles about Keeping up with the Bonds and the consensus was that if a rogue Bond was going to be up to date, then so too would the mainstayer.

It was quite amusing to read at the time.....said he date stamping his age across the internet.

[007Travis]

Who knows.... With all this news of Brosnan quitting. If they try something different now, without all of the big bangs and stuff maybe we could see a return of the PPK? Anyone think that's a possibility, or is it gone for good?

[Qwerty]

Sure it's a possibility! Why not give it to the new James Bond actor in Bond 21? Go back to the way it's always been with the trusted PPK.

[007Travis]

Qwerty, on 27 July 2004 - 17:22, said:

Sure it's a possibility! Why not give it to the new James Bond actor in Bond 21? Go back to the way it's always been with the trusted PPK.

Yes I think so too. I'd prefer it.

[Qwerty]

007Travis, on 27 July 2004 - 17:24, said:

Qwerty, on 27 July 2004 - 17:22, said:

Sure it's a possibility! Why not give it to the new James Bond actor in Bond 21? Go back to the way it's always been with the trusted PPK.

Yes I think so too. I'd prefer it.

They really haven't made notice of which gun he uses in The World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day, I'd be surprised if suddenly without notice they did go over to the PPK again and it made a huge impact. Need to kind of make a gesture to the switch.

[License To Kill]

Qwerty, on 26 July 2004 - 20:19, said:

007Travis, on 26 July 2004 - 21:15, said:

Bryce (003), on 26 July 2004 - 18:56, said:

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's.

I wish they would do this as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I've thought this all along.

I liked seeing the P99 in Tomorrow Never Dies, but I had hoped it would just be a fun little one film deal. I'd like to see the PPK return.

I was hoping for Bond 21, with "back to basics" script, to see Pierce holster the PPK. All for not now

Maybe we'll see Adrian Paul with the P5

[Bryce (003)]

Bloody well right Lads!

Yes, the PPK must return.

My own (as in the pic above) is chambered in .380 (9mm short casing) but essentially the same sized round. Limit the fine weapon in only one regard. The clip only holds six. I tend to chamber an extra in the barrel just because..well..if you're carrying a PPK...You've got to have seven.

There were also PPK's chambered in .22 (5.5mm), .25 (6.35mm) and - of course - .32 (7.65mm) and lastly the .380.

I use Winchester silver-tip hollow points and even have a clip of Glasers (yeah the REAL ones) and the overall rating give them equal stopping power to a full 9mm, yet, due to the short load and barrel length, it's only effective to about 60 feet (say 20 meters). Oddly, the rating on the Glasers gives the stopping power to be equivalent to a .357 Magnum JHP (jacketed Hollow-Point).

Enough of the History lesson.

The PPK is Bond's Gun.
A Martini is Bond's drink.
A gunmetal cigarette case and lighter are Bond's vice.
The Aston Martin is Bond's car.

Givens.

Let's bring it back and (to maybe convince the audience) have Q give him some serious man-stopper ammo.

[007Travis]

Bryce (003), on 27 July 2004 - 17:47, said:

The PPK is Bond's Gun.
A Martini is Bond's drink.
A gunmetal cigarette case and lighter are Bond's vice.
The Aston Martin is Bond's car.

Givens.

Let's bring it back and (to maybe convince the audience) have Q give him some serious man-stopper ammo.

AMEN!

[Qwerty]

License To Kill, on 27 July 2004 - 17:35, said:

Qwerty, on 26 July 2004 - 20:19, said:

007Travis, on 26 July 2004 - 21:15, said:

Bryce (003), on 26 July 2004 - 18:56, said:

I truly wish 007 would return to his PPK - It's as much a part of him as the cigarette case and the martini's.

I wish they would do this as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I've thought this all along.

I liked seeing the P99 in Tomorrow Never Dies, but I had hoped it would just be a fun little one film deal. I'd like to see the PPK return.

I was hoping for Bond 21, with "back to basics" script, to see Pierce holster the PPK. All for not now

Maybe we'll see Adrian Paul with the P5

We can still see it introduced with a new James Bond though LTK! No problems there.

[Bryce (003)]

007Travis, on 27 July 2004 - 14:50, said:

Bryce (003), on 27 July 2004 - 17:47, said:

The PPK is Bond's Gun.
A Martini is Bond's drink.
A gunmetal cigarette case and lighter are Bond's vice.
The Aston Martin is Bond's car.

Givens.

Let's bring it back and (to maybe convince the audience) have Q give him some serious man-stopper ammo.

AMEN!

*high-Fives 007Travis via internet*

Indeed!

I'm just speaking the Gospel here.