42 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Let's be honest with ourselves and with each other: is Gardner a bore?

Are his books (while competently written) flabby, lifeless and really rather dull?

Do they lack the escapist zing and the certain je ne sais quoi "Bondishness" of the novels of Fleming, Amis and Benson?

Do they even lack James Bond?

Well?

[Qwerty]

Certainly not at all, some of his books are less liked by myself than others, but honestly, I love some of his plots.

Gardner is quite good.

[ChandlerBing]

No, many of them are quite good. Granted, they are meant to be read by someone with more than just a junior high education.

[Loomis]

Granted, they are meant to be read by someone with more than just a junior high education.

Counts me out then, obviously. Gee, if only I were as smart and well-educated as you, Chandler. How many degrees do you have, I wonder? Stun me with your educational accomplishments.

[Mister Asterix]

I didn

[ChandlerBing]

As my last ever (I HOPE!) response to Loomis:

I have a Bachelors Degree, and am currently working on my Master's. I was reading Gardner's Bond books when I was in my early teens. Too bad every thing I write offends you, but that's life.

[Bon-san]

Lifeless and boring? Not IMO. I've enjoyed reading them (haven't read the last few). While they may be lacking in a certain Flemingesque quality, I find them to be a worthy piece of the literary canon.

They have the essential page-turning quality, they feature some notably out-there villany, Bond is cool throughout, and there are even some attempts at continuity from Fleming.

I prefer Amis, but then, he only did the one. I rather frown on Gardner bashing as it's a pretty heavy mantle to assume, and I think he did all right by it.

[jwheels]

I actually enjoy a few a them, but to be honest, I really don't remember many of the plots. So, lifeless and boring? No. Forgetable? Yes.

[DLibrasnow]

I actually prefer Gardner to Benson! I think the writing is a lot better.

[ChandlerBing]

Well, Gardner's been around the block a time or two more than Benson has been, so of course Gardner's better. Did I like Benson better? You betcha.

[americanbond]

I feel Gardner's work is good in parts, but usually doesn't add up to a whole lot.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Icebreaker is the best non-Flemming book ever and is even better than some of his too! Bensen books are lame. I read 1 and a half and lost total interst in reading James Bond. Gardner did a good job. I wish he did a 'Living Daylights' film adaptation.

[Qwerty]

I wish he did a 'Living Daylights' film adaptation.

I too would have loved to see something to that effect. Granted, it was still Fleming, a novelization from screen to book, I think, would have been rather good. Gardner seemed to write well on his two novelizations.

[Cesari]

I think two or three of his James Bond books are good.
YES! I find the others are lifeless are boring!!

[Qwerty]

Perhaps, because some of his books are lesser than some of his others, that they could appear lifeless?

Personally,, I thought them all good, with different levels of enjoyment.

[Roebuck]

It's 50/50 with me. With the exception of Cold (where he badly drops the ball) I'd select a Gardner Bond over any of Benson's IFP output. The early books are cracking little pulp thrillers, updating 007 for the eighties while managing to keep the excesses of the EON series at arms length. Gardner also retained the touches of sadism, the kinky and the brand name snobbery that Benson never seemed to get a handle on.

But later novels remind me of that Moore film, 'The Man Who Haunted Himself', in that Bond's cover identity of James Boldman seems to split off into a separate character. Gardner starts to write books about James Boldman, agent of MicroGlobe One, and while some of them are still good reads they've little to do with Ian Fleming's James Bond.

He also had a tendency to abandon quite promising plot lines midway through. The best example I can think off the top of my head is Scorpius, where the smart card idea is ditched in favour of a more conventional assassination cult ending. And in another the villain's back-up plan, to explode an airliner over an American city, is dealt with in a single paragraph.

Edited by Roebuck, 15 May 2004 - 06:17 PM.

[DLibrasnow]

Icebreaker is the best non-Flemming book ever and is even better than some of his too! Bensen books are lame. I read 1 and a half and lost total interst in reading James Bond. Gardner did a good job. I wish he did a 'Living Daylights' film adaptation.

Amen Tarl.

[1q2w3e4r]

Yes he's a bore. There's only so many times that you can use the "this person who is on Bond's side is actually working for his enemy plot." Most of his books run into one another in my mind in terms of plot (and i've read most several times) where as Fleming's are rich in not only there detail but are individual at the same time. Benson, does a much better job in my opinion.

And Bond in Gardner's novels is really domesticated. Bond should NEVER be willing to "settle" HE'S a male fantasy. Something Benson realised and I think Gardner ignored.

[zencat]

License Renewed is half the reason I'm a Bond fan today. This book excited me more than the film of that year (FYEO). I love the Gardner books.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I liked Licence renewed too. Btw, the sillowette of Bond on those early 80s gardners looks exactly like Pierce Brosnan!I never imagined Bond with so much hair!

[zencat]

I liked Licence renewed too. Btw, the sillowette of Bond on those early 80s gardners looks exactly like Pierce Brosnan!I never imagined Bond with so much hair!

I heard at some point during the Dalton years Eon objected to the silhouette and it was changed, but just for one book (The Man From Barbarossa).

The most amazing Pierce-like silhouette is on the US hardcover of James Bond The Authorized Biography of 007. It looks EXACTLY like him, and this was in 1973.

[Johnboy007]

The writer of For Specials Services, Icebreaker, Nobody Lives Forever, No Deals Mr. Bond, Never Send Flowers, and SeaFire a bore? No way.

[The Silver Beast]

I agree, Johnboy007. The Gardner books are great. For Special Services is my favorite Bond book of them all!

[Qwerty]

I think Gardner clearly knew what he wanted with his first few books or so. Licence Renewed, For Special Services, Icebreaker, Nobody Lives Forever and others all have a very clean cut flow to them, with of course an occasional double cross or so, something Gardner seemed to love.

I think as he moved on, he created more complex and different plots that weren't always expected in a Bond novel, but change is nice sometimes and I think it worked.

Gardner didn't write lifeless books, different yes, but very, very good.

[HellIsHere]

John Gardner is a real writer. I'm not English and I regard his type of writing rather superior compared with his successor. Make no mistakes, he writes damn well. And his stories are mature stuff. Raymond Benson has some ideas, but his writing is plainer straightforward, in literally terms, off course.

[Qwerty]

Exactly, I think Gardner easily came up with some of the most complex plots ever in the literary series. Sometimes they were a good thing, and sometimes not, but nonetheless they were always interesting.

[Loomis]

Despite the title of this thread and my first post in it, it is not my intention to bash Gardner. I'm very fond of what I've read of his work, with the exception of "Scorpius", which I really couldn't be bothered to plough through. Perhaps I'm being way too harsh, aggressive, and writing-in-black-and-white-sort-of-thing, though (and not for the first time) - a nicer way of phrasing the question I really want to ask might be: "Are Gardner's books un-Bondian"?

[quiller]

never read amis, bond. dam it! found benson pot boilerish(this is no insult) gardener good. but fleming is the man. his books are the most interesting on so many levels. i also would recomend any of his biographys. top chap old fleming

[Loomis]

If you like Fleming, but find Gardner and Benson disappointing, I'm sure you'll like Amis' "Colonel Sun", quiller. I strongly recommend you seek it out.

[quiller]

If you like Fleming, but find Gardner and Benson disappointing, I'm sure you'll like Amis' "Colonel Sun", quiller. I strongly recommend you seek it out.

once saw it on a market stall but couldn't afford it( i was a poor student at the time) when i went back with 50p burning in my pocket both the book and stall were gone