10 replies to this topic

[Jacques Nexus]

Okay, I'm sticking my neck out here, but I have always believed "Jinx" IS NOT a villainess for a number of reasons. The 1st is that Halle Berry is too sweet looking to make a credible Bond villain...I've never bought this from the start. The 2nd is the Jay Leno interview where she is evasive on the question of being a "bad Bond girl". All the stuff about "kicking butt" & being "feisty" sounds to me like a Pussy Galore type character. The 3rd is that Bond 20 may perhaps be the best opportunity to showcase a black Bond HEROINE for the first time. The 4th is that Purvis & Wade probably have some more plot twists up their sleeves for Bond fans again and the EON publicity dept will probably try and keep it that way with the cold efficiency of a KGB disinformation campaign . The 5th and best reason is that I think Berry & Brosnan would make a very lovely couple together at the final "clinch"...and if Michelle Yeoh turns up she'll probably have a glorious & heroic death scene at the climax...hopefully in the ice caves !! (I keep plugging for this ).

[zencat]

I agree that Jinx could turn out to be a Pussy Galore type of character -- working for the baddies then won over by Bond's, er, charms.

As for Wai Lin... I like Michelle Yeoh but I felt Wai Lin was just a nothing character in TND. How is she such a "modern woman?" Because she shoots and kicks people? But I'm not averse to bringing her back in BOND 20...at least her past with Bond will give her some dimension. But I hope they do it right. Not just a, "Hi, Wai" at the airport. Bringing back a Bond girl is a major deal -- she has to appear at the worst possible time for Bond. You know, he's deep undercover and at some very dangerous and vulnerable place and, boom, Wai Lin shows up. We wonder what's gonna happen... Could be a good thing?... Then Wai Lin steps up to him, slaps his face and says, "This man is a spy."

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Jacques Nexus (23 Dec, 2001 04:54 a.m.):
and if Michelle Yeoh turns up she'll probably have a glorious & heroic death scene at the climax...hopefully in the ice caves !! (I keep plugging for this ).

I don't understand why there is such a general disdain in these forums for Michelle Yeoh and the Wai Lin character.

What exactly is it about her that makes her so bad?

And why is everybody so afraid of her return to the series? I doubt she will return as a heroine. I see her in a more of an auxiliary, sub-plot role.

[level007]

yeah i agree with you Dmitri. I like Wai Lin, it was a good character, a moderm women.
I would be happy if she returned in the film, but in view it will not happen, because Michelle Yeoh prefers to use her time for her other movies, she made with her production company. Remenber she refused the villain role of Matrix 2 & 3 !! so it will be hard to get her for a second Bond.

[Blofeld's Cat]

The Wai Lin character had so much potential, but never properly allowed to develop in TWINE. She is worth returning to expand any Chinese aspect that the Bond 20 script reveals.

A touch of the cynical here, but Michelle Yeoh now has a huge profile as a result of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon that EON would be mad to let that slip.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Jinx has to be on the side of evil with a name like that. I couldn't see a 'Bond Girl' having such a mischievous name.

[Jacques Nexus]

Dmitri_Mishkin (23 Dec, 2001 10:46 a.m.):

Jacques Nexus (23 Dec, 2001 04:54 a.m.):
and if Michelle Yeoh turns up she'll probably have a glorious & heroic death scene at the climax...hopefully in the ice caves !! (I keep plugging for this ).

I don't understand why there is such a general disdain in these forums for Michelle Yeoh and the Wai Lin character.

What exactly is it about her that makes her so bad?

And why is everybody so afraid of her return to the series? I doubt she will return as a heroine. I see her in a more of an auxiliary, sub-plot role.

Hang on, Dimitri...who says I don't like Wai Lin ?...on the contrary, I LOVE WAI LIN AND I AM DECLARING THAT TO THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD !. It was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part to say: "...a glorious & heroic death...hopefully in the ice caves...". That passage was meant to mean that because I think Berry may be the HEROINE, therefore Wai Lin may be killed off...she won't be back for another outing, so I think killing her off at the climax, when nobody is expecting it would add to the movie's impact...so I am only advocating it purely for dramatic reasons ONLY.
TO PROVE I ADORE WAI LIN, please check out my peice of Wai Lin fan fiction (at NEXUS BOND 20 SCENARIO 2: Bond 20 board) & a Wai Lin poem I composed (at WAI LIN POEM: fan fiction board).

[Blofeld's Cat]

PaulZ108 (24 Dec, 2001 05:40 a.m.):
Wai Lin was a little too feminist if you ask me. She was more stubborn than independent. Bond only wanted to team up for a common goal, but she couldn't give up her "decadent corrupt western agent" thing. If she had said that to Fleming's Bond, she would have been slapped.

I took this as just being banter between two very dedicated spies on ideologically opposite sides, but joining forces to work together. Wai Lin can't be classed as feminist, just determined to perform her job to the best of her ability.

Bond was labeled "a sexist, misogynist dinosaur" by M so the interaction between a headstrong Wai Lin and himself was quite amusing I thought.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

zencat (23 Dec, 2001 06:13 p.m.):
As for Wai Lin... I like Michelle Yeoh but I felt Wai Lin was just a nothing character in TND. How is she such a "modern woman?" Because she shoots and kicks people?

In a way, yes. With the exception of Tilly Masterson attempt to be a sniper to avenge her sister's death in Goldfinger, and Melina Havelock using similar vengeful tactics for the death of her parents in FYEO, we have not seen too many independent, self-sufficient Bond girls to date. Correct me if I'm wrong, but smart, physically capable Bond girls have been few and far between much of the series. Throughout the 1990's, we have moved towards a much more liberated, female-dominated world in which women are just as "equal" to men. More women are in the workplace (accepting high-profile roles), more women are capitalizing upon prestigious careers, more women are leading the way in their families and sculpting their own image of themselves, free of male tyranny. Feminists everywhere have rejoiced at this "victory."

With TND's Wai Lin, a character who supposedly does not need Bond in any capacity to protect herself, who is a secret government agent in her own right and who (at least appears) to not need his services or cooperation, we sure have moved beyond the years of Miss Holly Goodnight and Stacey, and perhaps even Diana Rigg, wouldn't you say? Wai Lin is merely a reflection of the times.

[PaulZ108]

Let me just start by saying that I feel that (most) feminists themeselves are sexist. Think about all the women channels there are and think about how many guy channels there are. Guys have maybe the Playboy channel (if that counts) and that's about it, and even it markets itself as appealing to both sexes. Women have WE, Oxygen, Lifetime, Hallmark...it goes on and on. Can you imagine the outrage there would be if there was a channel specifically for men? I've got no problem at all with women having just as much power and authority as men, but when they start acting better because they think they deserve special treatment (take Destiny's Child for example) because they've been opressed that bothers me.

Wai Lin was a little too feminist if you ask me. She was more stubborn than independant. Bond only wanted to team up for a common goal, but she couldn't give up her "decadent corrupt western agent" thing. If she had said that to Fleming's Bond, she would have been slapped.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Blue Eyes (23 Dec, 2001 08:33 p.m.):

zencat (23 Dec, 2001 06:13 p.m.):
Bringing back a Bond girl is a major deal -- she has to appear at the worst possible time for Bond. You know, he's deep undercover and at some very dangerous and vulnerable place and, boom, Wai Lin shows up.

Excellent idea Zencat! Bond's in a North Korean base perahps? Investigating this General Zao and he comes across Wai Lin. Who he thinks would be on his side after their past etc... (or at least turn a blind eye) And boom, she has him arrested. Or at least reveals his location which could lead to a stunning escape sequence.

This idea seems to harken back to the days of TND. Wai Lin's collision with Bond at Carver's printing presses led to a stunning chase sequence. Hopefully, this is not rehashed in Bond 20. I do think the idea of Wai Lin "betraying" Bond and acting as an antagonist to his goals is very intriguing, however. If Wai Lin is now an enemy, doesn't this certainly turn the tables on what it means to be a Bond girl? A former ally of Bond now becomes his opponent? Fascinating.

[Blue Eyes]

zencat (23 Dec, 2001 06:13 p.m.):
Bringing back a Bond girl is a major deal -- she has to appear at the worst possible time for Bond. You know, he's deep undercover and at some very dangerous and vulnerable place and, boom, Wai Lin shows up.

Excellent idea Zencat! Bond's in a North Korean base perahps? Investigating this General Zao and he comes across Wai Lin. Who he thinks would be on his side after their past etc... (or at least turn a blind eye) And boom, she has him arrested. Or at least reveals his location which could lead to a stunning escape sequence.