43 replies to this topic

[DLibrasnow]

Well actually, I believe Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves in all of his 007 appearances.

[CommanderBond]

why do you say that DLib???

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by CommanderBond
why do you say that DLib???

See this thread http://forums.comman...=&threadid=2549

For all the details.

-- Xenobia

[Triton]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
Well actually, I believe Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves in all of his 007 appearances.

YES! Someone else who agrees with me.

[CommanderBond]

I dont think he was that much of an M because of the fact he didnt play M that much. But I dont think Dench is that great as M either.

[BondNumber7]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
Well actually, I believe Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves in all of his 007 appearances.

I have always agreed with your opinion on this. I believe that by Octopussy, Sir Miles Messervy was dead and Admiral Hargreaves took his possition. Maybe M was away in FYEO because of an illness which eventually lead to his death.

Anyway, I never thought of what happened to Robert Brown. Maybe because his role as M lasted for a short while is reason why I never really thought much about the actor.

He is just another part of Bond's history that has left us.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by BondNumber7


I have always agreed with your opinion on this. I believe that by Octopussy, Sir Miles Messervy was dead and Admiral Hargreaves took his possition. Maybe M was away in FYEO because of an illness which eventually lead to his death.

Anyway, I never thought of what happened to Robert Brown. Maybe because his role as M lasted for a short while is reason why I never really thought much about the actor.

He is just another part of Bond's history that has left us.

Yes, after all it is entirely plausible that Admiral Hargreaves could have become head of MI6. Wasn't Sir Miles also an Admiral before he became M. I guess those people who think Brown was Sir Miles also think that Dench is Sir Miles after a sex change operation.

[Triton]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


Yes, after all it is entirely plausible that Admiral Hargreaves could have become head of MI6. Wasn't Sir Miles also an Admiral before he became M. I guess those people who think Brown was Sir Miles also think that Dench is Sir Miles after a sex change operation.

Well I presume that if you asked Michael G. Wilson about which character Robert Brown played as M, he would have answered Sir Miles Messervy. But I think that it's a fun idea to think about another character as the head of MI6 when Robert Brown assumed the role in 1983 in Octopussy. Robert Brown's performance as M never seemed to be imitating Bernard Lee, and I never imagined Bernard Lee saying the lines that were given to Robert Brown. They always seemed like different people to me.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Triton


Well I presume that if you asked Michael G. Wilson about which character Robert Brown played as M, he would have answered Sir Miles Messervy.  

I think you would be wrong. As I mentioned in another thread (in which the article was referenced) Wilson said in 1981 that they would not recast Sir Miles out of respect for Bernard Lee, but bring back an earlier character or create a new one to assume the role of M.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
Could all please take the Messervy/Hargreaves discussion to the thread that Xenobia highlighted.

Thank you.

The reason it is in this thread is because of an assumption on the article on the CBN main page.

[Blue Eyes]

It's not an assumption, it's an editorial decision. That is the view of the CBn editorial.

It is also the view of the CBn editorial that this is not the place to debate that point, given the nature of this thread. If you wish to discuss it, do it in the nominated thread.

[BondNumber7]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
It's not an assumption, it's an editorial decision. That is the view of the CBn editorial.

It is also the view of the CBn editorial that this is not the place to debate that point, given the nature of this thread. If you wish to discuss it, do it in the nominated thread.

Listen Bluey, discusing anything about Robert Brown or the characters he played is another way of celebrating his work, and therefore DLibrasnow has the right to discuse Admiral Hargreaves and the topic deserves to be in this thread. I don't think everyone should be repetitive and post "He was a good M and will be missed; R.I.P. Robert Brown, a million trillion times." Lets get some interesting discusion under this thread about Robert Browns film roles and career.

[Blue Eyes]

How about what I said stands and that any other discussion will simply be moved.

[BondNumber7]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
How about what I said stands and that any other discussion will simply be moved.

Well, your abilities as a mod are nothing special and your not helpful, but atleast you gave me a great idea for a sig.

[mccartney007]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
It's not an assumption, it's an editorial decision. That is the view of the CBn editorial.

I like how what we said would happen is happening.

[DLibrasnow]

It's entitrely an assumption. Where is the evidence that he played Sir Miles when all the evidence points to the fact that he played Admiral Hargreaves in Octopussy

[Tarl_Cabot]

M is like a title standing for "Minister"?. Q stands for quartermaster and Bond calls John Cleese Q now, that's not to suggest Desmond's Q was recast. Same as Judy dench's "M". So what's the issue here? I though we all knew this.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
It's entitrely an assumption. Where is the evidence that he played Sir Miles when all the evidence points to the fact that he played Admiral Hargreaves in Octopussy

well snowie as you know i am with you all the way on this, stick to your guns and dont let them try and back you down on this:)

[DLibrasnow]

Its like the thought police 'finesse, imposing their beliefs on others! :eek:

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
It's entitrely an assumption. Where is the evidence that he played Sir Miles when all the evidence points to the fact that he played Admiral Hargreaves in Octopussy

What evidence?

[DLibrasnow]

Hmmm - the interview, the fact that M bears a striking resemblence to Admiral Hargreaves etc etc.

I suppose some people must believe that Dame Judi is playing Sir Miles in drag and that John Cleese is Maj. Boothroyd but I don't buy that.

Of course parts are recast in the 007 series, even the part of James Bond has been played by no less than five actors (or is James Bond a codename??), but I don't recall Roger Moore appearing in a Sean Connery 007 flick or Dalton showing up as a Moore flick.

Given the evidence the most plausible (and most likely) assumption we MUST make is that Admiral Hargreaves appeared in TSWLM, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK.

If you have counter evidence, please present it.

[Blue Eyes]

In such an area of ambiguity there is no evidence. One can argue either way, and present evidence for either side.

There is no assumption that we MUST make, for you can not apply your logic on this issue accurately to the Bond series. It's each to their own and half a dozen to the other.

'Though police' comments from a reviewer who talks of the assumption we 'MUST' make? I'd really like to know where it is that CBn told you what to think.

Wilson's interview is not evidence enough. You'd need supporting statements from the likes of Brown, Cubby and Debbie McWilliams. Or you'd need to be able to display where in the original script it defines Brown's M as Hargreaves.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
If you have counter evidence, please present it.

I don't and that's the point.

Until someone comes up with irrefutable evidence that 2 + 2 = 5, I'm always going to assume that it equals 4. If there was irrefutable proof in the movies that Brown's M was Hargreaves then I'd go along with that, but there isn't so I'm asuming that it's Messervey, or at the very most someone else not specifically Hargreaves. If it was Hargreaves I'm sure the script would've played up to that as an explanation.

Hey, that only my rationality of the situation and in no way am I trying to force it on anyone.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

I don't and that's the point.

Until someone comes up with irrefutable evidence that 2 + 2 = 5, I'm always going to assume that it equals 4. If there was irrefutable proof in the movies that Brown's M was Hargreaves then I'd go along with that, but there isn't so I'm asuming that it's Messervey, or at the very most someone else not specifically Hargreaves. If it was Hargreaves I'm sure the script would've played up to that as an explanation.

Hey, that only my rationality of the situation and in no way am I trying to force it on anyone.

I see things differently. To me that is the same thing as saying that Cleese is playing Major Boothroyd.
Some may say, ahh, but Cleese appeared in TWINE with Desmond Llewelyn to which I reply -- aaahh, but Brown appeared in TSWLM with Lee.

[Blue Eyes]

But the proof with Cleese is both in the films dialogue and the novelisation. So there exists a distinction that doesn't appear with Hargreaves/M.

[freemo]

I suppose some people must believe that Dame Judi is playing Sir Miles in drag.

That's a rather odd thing to say. It's obvious that Judi Dench is playing an entirely different character, but it is not obvious that that Lee and Brown couldn't have both been playing Sir Miles.

[Triton]

In the James Bond novel The Facts of Death (1998) by Raymond Benson the female M is given the name Barbara Mawdsley. I don't know if this name has ever been approved by Eon Productions, but the female M certainly isn't Sir Miles in drag.

[Triton]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


I see things differently. To me that is the same thing as saying that Cleese is playing Major Boothroyd.
Some may say, ahh, but Cleese appeared in TWINE with Desmond Llewelyn to which I reply -- aaahh, but Brown appeared in TSWLM with Lee.

In the first draft of the script for Tomorrow Never Dies by Bruce Feirstein a replacement to Q is mentioned who has the name Malcolm Saunders. Has this name been repeated in the novelizations of The World is Not Enough or Die Another Day by Raymond Benson? Have any other sources given a name for the new Q?

[Blue Eyes]

Apart from that draft of TND, no other sources have given the new Q a title.

I wonder if Bond fans will adopt the TND title though?

[Tanger]

What so Cleese's Q is Malcolm Saunders?

I also think that Brown plays Hargreaves btw. It just seems logical.