335 replies to this topic

[Felix_Leiter]

Just a quick question. Was there any mention in DAD of R being promoted to Q?

[License To Kill]

I don't think so. I think it was assumed that John Cleese just replaced Desmond as Q. Just like Roger replaced Sean, Tim over Roger, and Pierce over Tim. You get the idea.

[Felix_Leiter]

But then what happened to the character of R?

[jwheels]

I don't think he replaced Desmond, I think he took over and became Q, like Judy Dench became M when the old M retired. If you remember, John Cleese said to Bond, "As I learned from my predecesor, I never joke about my work." If Cleese replaced Desmond, them who is the predecesor that he is refering too.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Felix_Leiter
But then what happened to the character of R?

There was no such character. "R" was Bond's nickname for Cleese's character whose really name was never revealed.

[Blue Eyes]

There never was a character of R. It's amazing after three years it still hasn't been cleared up.

Cleese's character in TWINE was Q's Assistant. Bond made a joke "If you're Q, does that make him R?". And people wrongly interpreted that as his title.

[DLibrasnow]

Yes, I find it hard to understand why people still believe there is an R character. Even in some press stories, after Cleese had been announced as the new Q, some media outlets were still referring to his character as R.
Once and for all, there is NO R in the 007 series. "Q" stands for Quartermaster.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
Once and for all, there is NO R in the 007 series. "Q" stands for Quartermaster.

This is half the confusion.

There actually is an "R" in the Bond series, to be pedantic. It's just not his real character's name, but rather a tag given to him. The end credits should have enclosed R in quotation marks to indicate this.

[Jamie007]

He is credited as R on the IMDB.
Like jwheels57 said "R" replaced Desmonds character, he didnt replace Desmond like they do with Bond and Moneypenny. The Q in DAD is a different character to Desmonds Q.
There seems to be some confusion about this. I think the reason they introduced "R" in TWINE alongside Q and then when he became Q had him quote Desmond and call him his predesessor is to make it clear that the two Q's are different characters.
Jim

[Blue Eyes]

I think it would have been pretty clear seeing they're two different people and they both appear alongside eachother in the same film.

[neversaynever]

Very true, Blue Eyes. But don't you think it's funny (and very noticeable) how much John Cleese's character changed between TWINE and DAD? In TWINE he was a bumbling moron, in DAD he was witty and smart. I guess it can be put down to not being the apprentice anymore: in DAD he is in charge, not the assistant. But it also just might be because he's Q now, Q can't be a bumbling idiot, so the character had to change to fit its new role (as Q instead of R).

Maybe I'm analysing this too much - but compare R's lines (or "R"'s line, if you really want to be fussy about the inverted commas!!) in TWINE, with the new Q's dialogue in DAD. "Six beverage cup holders" was funny, but made him seem like a bit of a fool. "Better than looking cleverer than you are" was sharp, funny, and it really showed Bond that this Q could dish it out just as well as Bond could. It goes down as one of the most memorable lines in DAD, in my mind.

[flares]

was not Cleese' character credited as R in the end titles of TWINE?

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by flares
was not Cleese' character credited as R in the end titles of TWINE?

Yes, only because his character was never heard being called anything else.

Assuming that Cbn is a microcosm of the Bond world at large, one could also assume that there are many, many more confused souls not knowing their R's and Q's. This confusion may eventually reach Eon and the writers of Bond 21 who, maybe, want throw in a few lines about it all.

While on the subject, I've always thought that Tanner's designation could be "N" only for the fact that N always follows M. They could then form a rap duo and called themselves M-'n'-N.

A bit of levity to help mask my amazement that the whole "R" and "Q" thingo still rages on to this day.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat


While on the subject, I've always thought that Tanner's designation could be "N" only for the fact that N always follows M. They could then form a rap duo and call themselves M-'n'-N.

Great.

[Xtreame]

Originally posted by neversaynever
Very true, Blue Eyes.  But don't you think it's funny (and very noticeable) how much John Cleese's character changed between TWINE and DAD?  In TWINE he was a bumbling moron, in DAD he was witty and smart.  I guess it can be put down to not being the apprentice anymore: in DAD he is in charge, not the assistant.  But it also just might be because he's Q now, Q can't be a bumbling idiot, so the character had to change to fit its new role (as Q instead of R).

Maybe I'm analysing this too much - but compare R's lines (or "R"'s line, if you really want to be fussy about the inverted commas!!) in TWINE, with the new Q's dialogue in DAD.  "Six beverage cup holders" was funny, but made him seem like a bit of a fool.  "Better than looking cleverer than you are" was sharp, funny, and it really showed Bond that this Q could dish it out just as well as Bond could.  It goes down as one of the most memorable lines in DAD, in my mind.

Another was "Too bad I can't make you Vanish!" LOL! that made everybody laugh both nights I was there.

[kevrichardson]

who else could have replace Desmond Llewelyn. it has been known John Cleese was to take over the role. Should he be called Major Boothroyd. No thought twice ,when Llewlyn replaced Peter Burton in FRWL. So what the big deal. It was a master stoke.:cool:

[DLibrasnow]

I think the two Q's are different characters. Cleese was named R in the credits of TWINE because Brosnan made a joke out of it and said "If you're Q does that make him R?"

As I said in my previous post, Q stands for Quartermaster. Cleese cannot be Major Boothroyd, because as we all know Desmond was addressed as Maj. Boothroyd in TSWLM (Anya at the docks in Sardinia "Good morning Major Boothroyd!").

I stand by by assertion there is NO R in the world of James Bond.

[JackChase007]

And originally, Major Boothroyd and Q were two totally different characters in Fleming's novels. But somehow, they became one in the films...

Boothroyd was the chap that gave Bond his Walther PPK to replace the Beretta. Q was always in charge of giving Bond equipment and other such items (Q Branch was responsible for the suitcase).

[General Koskov]

So Cleese's character was billed 'R' without quotation marks? Strange since M and Q (I think) both get that treatment. I suppose this is to show non-fans that 'M' or 'Q' is a whole word and not a typo.

The most strange part of the Q/R 'debate' is that one ought to know there are 'strange' namings of insignificant characters a lot. Like 'Man #1'.

And I've started a thread soley about this, but Q does not appear whatsoever in the books--only Q Branch and the armourer, Major Boothroyd (who we assume is in Q branch).

But in Casino Royale, M. tells Bond to 'see Q about train tickets' (or something like that); as well, LALD mentions Q as either a person or a personified institution. So did Fleming intend there to be a 'Q' character who would be the head of Q branch? Or was this indeed a personified institution?

[jwheels]

Major Boothroyd and Q are two different people in Fleming's books. I remember reading this somewere, if I find the link I will post it.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

And to think think that in Dr.No, Burton's character was dubbed "Armourer" rather than Q or Major Boothroyd. But I won't get into that. I've just thought of another point: if (presumably) the letter designation comes from one's rank or name (Quartermaster, Messervy, Mawdsley), then shouldn't Robinson technically be referred to sometimes as R? Just a thought, but probably wrong.

[Jamie007]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I stand by by assertion there is NO R in the world of James Bond.

We know there is no R, thats been established, we are using the name "R" to refer to Cleeses Q because we have no other name to call him by. The two Q's are different characters, its just easier to refer to him as "R" rather then "Cleeses Q".
Jim

[JackChase007]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero
And to think think that in Dr.No, Burton's character was dubbed "Armourer" rather than Q or Major Boothroyd.

If I remember correctly, in the novel Dr. No, the character is known as BOTH "Armourer" AND Major Boothroyd.

jwheels57 - I mentioned that Boothroyd and Q are two different characters - look 2 posts up above yours.

[Blue Eyes]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I think the two Q's are different characters. Cleese was named R in the credits of TWINE because Brosnan made a joke out of it and said "If you're Q does that make him R?"

As I said in my previous post, Q stands for Quartermaster. Cleese cannot be Major Boothroyd, because as we all know Desmond was addressed as Maj. Boothroyd in TSWLM (Anya at the docks in Sardinia "Good morning Major Boothroyd!").

I stand by by assertion there is NO R in the world of James Bond.

That's completely how I understand it.

The person who created the credits named him R for one of two reason. Either they were confused, or for back of a latter term.

Realistically, he was Q's Assistant, possibly referred to as the 2IC (Second in Command).

He is not Major Boothroyd.

[Dr Noah]

"I don't think so. I think it was assumed that John Cleese just replaced Desmond as Q. Just like Roger replaced Sean, Tim over Roger, and Pierce over Tim. You get the idea"

I might be wrong about this, but wasn't Cleese introduced in TWINE as Q's successor? The old Q retired in that movie and Cleese got promoted (hence Cleese was in the movie's closing scene, in place of Desmond)

That's why Cleese quotes from his "predecessor" in DAD, it's a different Q.

[MBmaster]

no I don't think so, as cleese said 'like my predecessor' so he replaced Q, not Desmond!

[BONDFINESSE 007]

its simple cleese takes over in the position of Q BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT MEN, Q IS JUST A POSITION where as connery, moore, lazenby, dalton, brosnan are all the same bond

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by BONDFINESSE 007
its simple cleese takes over in the position of Q BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT MEN, Q IS  JUST A POSITION where as connery, moore, lazenby, dalton, brosnan are all the same bond

Thats how I understand it. Desmond played Major Boothroyd and Cleese plays someone completely different.
I think this is quite obvious. If the two (Desmond and Cleese) had not appeared in the same movie together then it might be feasible to say they both played Maj. Boothroyd. Many people seem to believe that both Bernard Lee and Robert Brown played Sir Miles for instance (even though I personally think Lee was Sir Miles and Robert Brown was Admiral Hargreaves promoted to the position of M).
But since Desmond and Cleese were in scenes together in TWINE, and Desmond had already in earlier movies been identified as Maj. Boothroyd then we must logically assume that Cleese plays a different character who is now head of Q section since the retirement of Maj. Boothroyd.

[Jamie007]

I dont understand why there is any confusion about it. They are different Q's, the filmmakers made this very clear.

Why would anyone believe otherwise?
- In the TWINE Q talks about his imminent retirement
- Cleese is introduced as Q's successor
- In DAD Cleese's Q quotes Desmonds Q and calls him his predessessor
- Cleese and Desmond appeared in the same movie together
- Why would the filmmaker have a high profile actor play two completely different roles in two movies next to eachother?

Its obvious they are different characters. I dont know how you would think otherwise. They just didnt talk about Cleeses character being promoted and replacing Desmonds character out of respect to Desmond, they just did it subtley "In the words of my predessessor..."
Jim

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Jamie007
I dont understand why there is any confusion about it. They are different Q's, the filmmakers made this very clear.  

Why would anyone believe otherwise?
- In the TWINE Q talks about his imminent retirement
- Cleese is introduced as Q's successor
- In DAD Cleese's Q quotes Desmonds Q and calls him his predessessor
- Cleese and Desmond appeared in the same movie together
- Why would the filmmaker have a high profile actor play two completely different roles in two movies next to eachother?

Its obvious they are different characters. I dont know how you would think otherwise. They just didnt talk about Cleeses character being promoted and replacing Desmonds character out of respect to Desmond, they just did it subtley "In the words of my predessessor..."
Jim

Exactly. History though shows that some Bond fans have a problem with new characters appearing in the 007 series.

There is some controversy as to who exactly Robert Brown was meant to be in his portrayal as M. One school of thought is that he was simply playing the part of Sir Miles Messervy (as Bernard Lee had earlier) and yet another school of thought has him playing Admiral Hargreaves (a character Brown played in TSWLM) who has him promoted to the position of M in OP. I subscribe to the second school of thought because it simply makes more sense.
The whole M thing took on a different slant when Judi Dench took on the role because even the first school of thought had a problem accepting her as Sir Miles LOL